I was busy, in the living room, putting together my new Ikea lamp when something on the Arabic TV caught my attention. A distraught caller called in to the fatwa show with an emergency question for the Skeikh. The caller apparently threatened to divorce his pregnant wife when she refused to get him a glass of water. His exact words were, 'you are divorced if you don't get me a glass of water!'
According to the caller (keep in mind that this is a one-sided story), since the wife refused to get him his water, his conditional threat took place and they were divorced. Just like that, in a matter of seconds, their home was broken over a ridiculous demand.
The Sheikh rebuked the caller for mistreating his pregnant wife. He said that the wife was also mistaken for being stubborn, but most of the blame was on the husband. I am sure the answer would have differed if the wife wasn't in her condition (pregnant). Men are usually sympathetic toward poor special pregnant women, you know, hormones and all! *Sarcasm*
The caller's story is repeated on a daily basis in Muslim households all over the world. Men feel so powerful with their right to divorce and take back their women, they misuse the power Allah has granted them. The threat for divorce usually surrounds something a husband desires or doesn't want to happen. Similar threats I've heard of:
'If you leave the house, you are divorced--three times!"
"If you talk to your parents again, you are divorced."
"If you don't do XXXX, you are divorced!"
Divorce is a convenient blackmail tool for a man. It's used to oppress and control a woman from being a human being and practicing her free will. It's also a form of verbal abuse and control. Many times, men get caught in the evils of their own action. They repeat the unjust and haraam divorce threats so many times, their wife becomes haraam for them. In Islam, after three divorces from the same person, you aren't allowed to remarry. You would need to be in a different relationship before you can return to the old relationship.
I believe our scholars need to busy themselves with useful fatwas pertaining to this issue, instead of the dumb fatwas we hear of everyday. They should make ijtihad and start shunning men who abuse the power to divorce and remarry. Our scholars have that much authority in our times, I wonder why they don't use it to serve justice?
A useful tip to single, soon-to-be married women: you can stipulate in your marriage contract that you have the full-right to divorce yourself, if needed. Most men will refuse to comply, although Shariah law made it permissible. You know why?
They don't like it when the tables are turned.
**
Related Posts:
Text Message Talaq (divorce), Egyptian Style
Full Right to Divorce?
Sunday, December 30, 2007
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52 reflections:
a good post, really ...
do you know what, after reading this post i decided that:
... i will insist that my wife stipulate in the marriage contract that she have the full-right to divorce herself, if needed!
good post ya organic :-) .. keep it up
May Allah guide you...
I'm so sick of moronic men, I swear!
I ain't no men basher..but i would NEVER stipulate that i had the full right to divorce..cuz if i had that..im sure that the times ive gotten really pissed...i'd be using my RIGHT cuz i can get emotional like that.
I'm sure there's LOTS OF women out there who are less emotional, but I do kinda get why its not a straight up thing for women..cuz we'd be filing for divorce LEFT and RIGHT. Men are stupid but trust me..most of the men we HEAR about are not the GOOD ONES! The NEWS is always made up of MORONIC stories.
My own levelheaded mom has once or twice in her life gotten so ticked she'll call me and talk about 'im moving out' and this and that. in our culture that pretty much means like separation/divorce etc. My dad on the other hand who is also levelheaded has not mentioned such a thing IN HIS ENTIRE LIFE, at least not to us kids. And my parents have a very stable, emotionally healthy marriage. :-)
Although I understand that it isn't always allowed in some religions and cultures, I think that all women should have the right to divorce. Sometimes women are stuck in situations that are mentally or physically dangerous. It is hard enough for many women in those situations when they ARE allowed to divorce. I've read stories of women being forced to stay in an abusive relationship by the husband, family or whom ever just because of honor. I've also heard of some women being stuck without being able to marry - the husband divorces legally but not religiously, meaning he can marry again but she cannot. Things like that shouldn't happen, but unfortunately do. Horrible stuff.
Men need to learn that a lot of these rules and customs aren't there to be abused.
So will you have that stipulation in your marriage contract?
Always a thought-provoking post OM! But a woman doesn't even have to stipulate her right to "khulah" in her contract. She already has it. Of course, there are conditions upon it, just as there are conditions upon the men who use talaq. My own marriage ended when I asked for a khulah. The brother didn't like it, and was angry, but he granted it. I hope I never have cause to employ it again, though.
Anonymous; Kinda on the same topic, the imam of my community told a story the other day:
A grandmother was giving her soon-to-wed daughter and her intended husband some advice. She told the young woman to try not to get angry with the new husband, and to take up some hobby like crochet to get her mind off it if she did. The grandmother also told them not to keep secrets from each other. So the young woman and the man married and lived together for 60 years with not any arugument between them, and they kept no secrets from each other.
Eventually the wife became very ill and was near to death, and she and her husband decided to put their affairs in order. She called her husband to her bedside and told him she had something to tell him, something that she had kept hidden for all the years of their marriage. She directed him to get a small box from the closet and open it. He got the box and opened it in front of her. It contained 2 small crocheted doilies and $25,000.
The husband remembered the advice the grandmother had given them years ago and tears came to his eyes as he looked at the two doilies. He said to her, "You made these doilies when you were angry at me, and there are only two." The wife looked tenderly at her husband and said he was right. Then the man looked at the money and said, "But what about this money? Why have you kept this secret from me for 60 years?" The wife put a gentle old hand to his face and said, "This is the money from all the other doilies I sold in the past 60 years."
Hani: Good thinking, Hani! The step isn't necessary if you know the nature of the person you are marrying. But I think it's a good option for a woman going into an arranged marriage.
Beautiful. Islam: Ameen!
Suroor: Thank God for Aly, ha :D
Anon: You bring up a great point. We are conditioned to believe that women are more emotional than men. Do you think of society expected women not to be so emotional, would they still be?
I think both men and women shouldn't use their right to divorce without talking about it. It's not something you throw in the heat of the moment. Sure you can threaten 'I am leaving the house,' but you shouldn't ever use the "D" word when angry.
Men get just as emotional and divorce their women for stupid reasons. I don't see how men are better in these regards?
I am not the type of person who deals with change easily. I would think a million times before using the 'D' word because I am responsible like that. But it seems that men have abused their right too far!
I also want to note. It all depends on the personality of a man. Some men will not force a woman to stay in a forced relationship, but some do.
Laura: Actually, women in Islam always have the right to divorce themselves under something called 'Khlu!' The Egyptian government finally applied the ruling to the civil courts in the late 1990s. Women from all over Egypt started filing for divorce because their husbands had left them hanging while remarrying.
The only catch with Khlu', a woman still needs the approval of the judge and the soon-to-be divorced husband.
Umm A: There is a difference between Khlu and the ability to divorce yourself. When you include in the marriage contract that you have full right to divorce yourself, you don't need the husband or sheikh (judge) to approve it. On the other hand, with Khlu you still needed the approval from your ex-husband and the sheikh to supervise.
BTW, many sheikhs will not give a woman Khlu' if she isn't suffering physical abuse. Especially if she has children, granting divorce is frowned upon and the poor woman is usually at the mercy of the sheikhs. And remember, if the husband is close to the sheikh, the woman almost will never get divorced. I've witnessed this first hand and I've had women email me (from the blog) about similar situations.
I think it is a good idea to have that in your marriage contract. Many men abuse that right and it is true, if many of them thought hard before uttering those words,the world and marriages would be a peaceful place. I think a woman who is educated in Islam about her rights would navigate well in a marriage unless as others put it, she is married to a moron who has no idea what is REALLY expected of him in a marriage. sf
Ps. I had a very worrying question, maybe if I asked it hear someone would shade some light on it. A friend had told me about a couple that just got married. Now,here's the thing, the girl's father, when young had impregnanted a woman who had a son out of wedlock and he never *cared* for this son. Now this son is the one who wants to marry this girl, no one knew that they had a same father. The question is , isn't it haraam for them to marry, some pple say, it's because the son is a *bastard* so he is not considered to be his son, so he can marry this girl,this is just plain sick!!! (sorry for using that word)
http://foreverloyal.wordpress.com/2007/12/31/ive-been-tagged/
You've been tagged Organica!
When I read the title of your post it brought me back... I remember when the ex wanted a glass of water and I didn't put it in the right container. He went on for 2weeks about how I wouldn't get him water.
A great post. Too many men abuse this power and use it as a threat.
Even for "normal" divorces if a woman divorces her husband he has to agree to it and sign the papers. So unless he doesnt then either she stays hanging or has the marriage annulled by someone who has the powers that be.
Quite pathetic really using divorce as a threat. I'd rather he DID just divorce me and I got rid of the bloody idiot than worry "will he divorce me if I dont iron his shirt right?"
Stupid men. Pathetic assholes.
asssalamu aleikum wa rahmatulahi wa barakatuhu,
why would anyone want to STAY married to someone that says something like that!
He should have asked her to get him some water. If she said no, either she always says no (this is who you married), sometimes says no 9maybe she feels bad) or never says no ( dude, something is seriously up with your wife then).
In any case, a threat of that magnitude for something so stupid is the man's fault. I wouldn't want to be married to that jerk anyway.
Did you know that 71% of all Canadian born Muslims marriages end in divorce? I don't know what the statistics are for America but that large figure scares me enough.
Your photo goes to show anything is possible at Walmart.. and I don't know if that's a good or bad thing! :S
I'm w/ Musulmana, I'd rather be alone than married to such a jerk. I know that isn't always an option for many women, though.
Salaam Alaikum,
Some men do not fear Allah and just worship their base desires. Otherwise how can they take the most disliked act permissable so lightly?
I would like to add to 'liya's comment regarding the high divorce rate in canada amongst canadian born muslims...
Accoring to Dr. Jamal Badawi source: http://www.revivingtheislamicspirit.com/convention/program.asp
"Divorce rates among Muslims in Canada today are less than half the national average. However, it is higher, much higher, among Canadian-born Muslims. The census showed that 71 per cent of them above the age of 15 were or had at some time been married, once, divorced once or twice and remarried."
(FYI, the divorce rate amongst muslims is 45% in Canada and 49% in the United States.)
An article describing the reasons why these divorces happen are outlined in this article published recently at:
http://www.infocusnews.net/content/view/986/135/
I was really astonished by the very high divorce rate -- 71% !!!--- with Canadian-born muslim marriages, especially since I am a muslim women, born in Canada, and married to an arab-born man.
I naively thought, when I was first married, that cultural differences would not be an issue at all for either of us, as long as we were practising muslims. Muslim first, culture second, right? Not so simple.
Enjoyed the blog and the comments, Organic.
I'm the first anonymous :-)
It seems that perhaps in this day and age, it may be good for the women to get the 'i have the divorce right ' in the contract, since it seems that shuyookh will keep the women tied even for reasons that are legit(according to the comments here).
If this is indeed not the case, then i would say let's stick to the default..that u have khula in case u want out.
Anyhow, this is a pretty big issue.
As for the question you asked organic, would women still be as emotional if society didnt expect them to?
I don't think this is tied to expectations. Ask any mother...she'll tell you her daughters are more 'moody' than her boys. Plus we know from science that women go through hormonal changes during certains times of the month and during pregnancy and after child birth and at menopause. I didnt make it up :-)
Being emotional is however THOUGHT to be always a negative thing,,which is how i perceive you took it.
I don't believe that is the case. I think God created one of the genders to be MORE emotional for a very important purpose. The woman is the nurturer and the main caretaker of the children. Who would want to leave their little kids with men as babysitters?
Just the other day, this 6 year old kid at an islamic sschool got hurt. Nobody expected a certain reaction from anyone. But automaticaly, the women were more like tryna ease the kid's emotional pain and telling him its ok. and the guys just happened to be focusing on the wound. Both are needed for this child. So Allah created us to fulfill that need in the creation. What's wrong w/ that?
By the way, this is not a 100% thing. As in...every single man is not going to be STRONGER physicaly than a woman. And there will exist multitudes of woman that are stronger than specific other men. But we know that in GENERAL, men are physically stronger than women.
The problem is that we are conditioned to think that typical masculine traits are somehow higher up on the scale than typical feminine traits. So we try to deny that those feminine traits exist in the women or that they must exist because society expects them to exist.
Assalamu alaikum
Your marriage contract is your one time chance to make it clear what you want, need or even desire.
In most Western countries the Islamic marriage contract is accepted on par as a prenuptial agreement. And thus you can stipulate your heart out.
Where you want to leave, education, travel, cooking, whatever oh and divorce.
However I love Muslim men. So here is something to balance out the negativity towards the gender of the Prophet, peace and blessings upon him.
http://writeoussisterspeaks.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/i-love-muslim-men/#comments
Masalama
UmTaleb
Umm A: The story was hilarious! Thanks for sharing.
sf: I spent a while looking up some fatwas for you. I found this and this one.
Honestly, I don't agree with either. I am a little shocked and disappointed with the ruling when the illegitimate child is a result of two non-married individuals.
Basically what I understood, an illegitimate child is always attributed to the mother with an exception when the woman is married and she has an affair. The result of the zina is attributed to the husband of the zanyah (adulterer), even if he didn't father the child. This is referenced in an authentic hadeeth by the prophet, and it makes sense to me.
However, all scholars agree that the son is a semi-muharam of the women of the family. Which means, the illegitimate child can't marry any of his sisters/mothers/father, but also women shouldn't take off their hijab in front of the person. The illegitimate child can't receive any inheritance from the father, only the mother. The ruling is pretty harsh, I think!
Foreverloyal: Thanks for the tag!
Miss A: It's not about the water, it's about being in control! Thanks for the comment.
Sumi:Exactly! That's why you should include it in your marriage contract.
Musulmana: Good point! Some women marry the jerks and have no way out. I know of a woman right now who calls my mother everyday crying. Her husband turns off the heat in the morning when she is sleeping to make her life harder. He brought her to America to torture her it seems. She doesn't leave the house and shares her own kitchen with strangers. The husband is cheap and finds it halal to share half their house with a strange family! Why doesn't she leave? I ask myself over and over
I am not sure, but her main reasoning for not escaping, she is afraid of what society will say about her.
'liya: OMG! I can't believe it. That's so scary.
Yes, I am really close to boycotting Walmart.
Amani: Right on! You are educated and will have the support of your family. Not all women are fortunate enough to have a strong support system.
Safiya Outlines: It's power!
why should someone inherit from someone they weren't fathered from?
It makes sense, if that is the rulling and it has evidence.
Anisa:Ya. Culture comes to haunt you. Is your husband an Egyptian born Canadian? Or was he born in Egypt?
I think that would make a big difference because your culture becomes Canada.
First anonymous :):
You make a good point, maybe all women should start including the prenuptial agreements in their marriage contract.
Your second point about being emotional makes sense, but you must admit that the emotional accusation is always thrown as an insult, thus my sarcasm in the above post when the Sheikh felt sympathy for the very pregnant woman!
In the new psychology text books, they are finding that boys and girls are alike and different in many aspects, but a big chunk of the way people turn out to be is the expectations that fall upon them.
If Islam allows a woman to divorce herself, then she must not be that much emotional, ha?
Um Taleb: I loved the poem, it was cute and a good balance to have. Thanks for sharing!
Anon: The illegitimate child isn't allowed to inherit from his real father (who biologically is related to) because the child wasn't conceived in a legitimate relationship, thus you act like it never happened. The son is only linked to his mother, even if the biological father is known.
I guess this might be a way to punish the father for his sin? I am not sure. But if the adulterer confesses that this is his child, why couldn't he claim him/her as the son and put the son/daughter in his name?
The shoyookh claim that the son/daughter isn't punished for the crime of their parents, but do you think when a child is deprived from inheritance and a real name isn't that a form of punishment? Yet, the children by the father from a real marriage enjoy inheritance and a name and a real father in their lives?
What baffles me, how come the child, who isn't recognized in every way, can't marry the children of this adulterer? Yes, biologically he is his father, but legally he isn't. I think the scholars want to have it both ways. They want to recognize the child when it comes to marriage, but not when it comes to money and having a decent way.
IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY, which leads me doubt all of this.
In Islam every condition by woman at the time of Nikah is acceptable, if man also agree with that.. There are many other conditions that woman can ask:
1, right of traveling alone
2,right of adobting their children after divorce
3,right of working
4,right of education
5, right of divorce
and many more..
Most men think these rights can take their manly power over their wife. I hate when muslim men are that much engaged to be powerful over their wife, instead of being powerful against problems in muslim world.. They need a big shake..
Happy new year Organica.. May God bless your new year with happiness, health and LoVe :)
I gave it some serious thought a few months back. Its not something I've decided to stipulate in my marriage contract. I know what my avenues are re divorce if it things ever went down that line(God forbid).
For those who live in lands whereby the Shaykhs and Imams are a few planks thick (and how the system works generally is the same), or they dont have family who'd be able to aid them in such a situation, or if they feel more comfortable and more secure with the knowledge of having it under their belt then perhaps they should think about stipulating it seriously in their contract.
Its definitely not a magic wand. So lets not portray it as such either. Most men are decent enough to agree to divorce. Its only a select few that are morons and draw out a battle over it.
Btw, despite discussing it numerous times, i've never actually came across women stipulating the right to divorce as a blanket-applicable-across-the-board right especially in the absence of certain situations - (eg marrying again, moving away from an agreed city would result in the woman divorcing her husband as his actions conflict pre-set conditions etc).
If anyone has, a link to this issue of women being able to, legit, to have the general right to divorce would be much appreciated.
and regarding my first comment, by "normal" marriages I meant civil/court marriages. Just because you send divorce papers to your spouse it doesnt mean you are divorced. He/she needs to sign it (which acknowledges agreement to dissolving of marriage) for it to commence. If he/she doesnt then well you have to wait for a period of time after which if nothing comes to fruition then the powers that be annull the marriage.
Basically it all boils down the to the people involved. Some can be assholes and make it difficult, some on the other hand aren't.
I just have to say alhumdulillah. My husband may be born and raised Egyptian but I don't think the word divorce could pass his lips, he chokes on the word whenever we're talking about someone ELSE in that situation.
I honestly could never imagine myself married to someone who would actually make that kind of demand. And especially that one about "Don't call your parents or we're dirvorced!"? Last time I checked thats totally against Islam, my husband can't tell me not to see or talk to my parents even though they are not Muslim. He cannot forbid me let alone divorce me for it.
It just completely shocks me how stupid people (any race, religion, nationality) can really be.
I think in that situation I would prefer to take him up on the offer rather that stay married to someone who would say that kind of thing in that kind of situation.
Thank you dear, I had told the person the same thing, I just needed some *proof*, you know sometimes we give out answers without supporting evidence. :) sf
You know, the breastfeeding co-workers fatwa is totally freakeriffic but I'm wondering if it was his odd way of saying people shouldn't work with non-mahrams?
Still nutty, though.
I get furious at how the "d" word gets thrown around in some homes.
Ladies must NOT assume that having an islamic marriage contract with stipulations such as who has custody of children in case of divorce, finances in case of divorce, dowery in case of divorce, etc. will have any actual legal validity in western countries.
The marriage contract will not be binding at all, unless lawyers have been involved beforehand.
The woman or man may later 'change his/her mind' despite signing an agreement before, during, or after marriage. And it doesn't mattter how 'relgious' or 'trustworthy' the fiance or spouse is when he or she agrees to the conditions outlined in the marriage agreement.
Ladies may be hesitant to start discussing with a potential husband about bringing in lawyers to work out the details of a marriage contract, so here is where a WALI is critical in ensuring that the male and female rights are protected, from an islamic perspective and a western legal perspective.
My following comment needs clarification: a prenuptial agreement is accepted in North Americian courts, however if is judged unfair or otherwise fails to meet legal requirements it will still be set aside.
Lawyers are NOT necessary for a prenuptial agreement to be binding. Sorry for the misinformation in my previous comment. Obviously, I'm not a lawyer.
Azizah Y. al-Hibri has written extensively on the muslim marriage contract in american courts. Yeah, she knows more about this stuff than I do. Check her out at www.minaret.org/azizah.htm
Hi!
Have a lovely, happy, healthy and successful 2008!
LOL @ the pic.
Divorce has very clear rules in the Quran. This does not include a man saying to his wife "I divorce you" and she is divorced.
It is a shame how we have strayed away from Islam. The majority of Muslims ( women and men) are ignorant of their religion and the laws are flawed.
I never knew that , you can write in your mariage agreement you stipulate the divorce ? Men who do these type of things are insecure and have seriouse issues , I also blame a woman to a degree for allowing the man to feel powerful like that .
marriage is mercy I really do fully understand why people like to live like oppressors towards one another . Guess with time I will understand that .
I wish scholars would refute men for coming out with such pathetic statement not mention childesh ! 'I will divorce you if you dont bring me a glass of water ' what retardidness is that !
It's not only that you actually can. You can ask not to share your husband in the future by written agreement. And even in a case of divorce... well, sheikhs are FOR CONCILIATION, not to make things worse.
And we, muslimaati in the world, fighting among ourselves for the length of skin we show... :(
Beautiful post, sister Organic. Salaam and may Allah reward you.
Salaam
Lots of interesting comments. I have a distant "uncle" who divorced his wife in a fit of anger and now he regrets it, although she seems to be quite happy. He's also changed his story and says he never mentioned the word "divorce" ie. "talaq" (in Urdu) at all, and was actually only asking her for the clock- or "calaak" if you say it with a Pakistani accent.
"They don't like it when the tables are turned."
It's so true, i once threatened my brother that i'd fill his wife in on a few things, basically she's very naive so she accepts everything from him, kinda like a 'i hear and i obey' but 'you can't hear because of your inability to hear but it's okay'... okay i think i need some rest, forgive me if that made no sense whatsoever.
hi!
i am still reading through the comments, but i thought i would write this down before i forget...
i have been told that the new rules added to the marriage contract are not 100% halal!!
when i got married, i had that condition that my x could only get married with my written approval. people told me later it was not ok because Islam gave him the right to do so with or without my consent. however, when i first read the condition, i thought it meant that he could only remarry with my written consent; otherwise, i would be entitled to a divorce automatically if i chose...
the whole reason i went on about that is because people keep giving contradicting opinions towards these things...
people say el 3esma (the right to divorce) has to only be the man's thing... i would have totally agreed if i didn't see first hand how crappy husbands can be about granting their wives their freedom and applying the (emsak be ma3roof aw tasree7 be e7san) concept...
i am sorry, i get too passionate when it comes to those topics, obviously!
i really like your blog, and would be happy if you share more educated islamic opinions on that matter...
Here's a useful fatwa that I've heard being issued in several places: no divorce by text message.
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1023-271298.html
It's bugging me: you're divorced.Not 'your'.
Sorry for that.
Love your blog sister.
:)
oh my days!!! finally someone who writes what i think, girl i cant thank you more for writing such truthful posts like this. your blog is sooo nice am im so happy that there are strong headed muslimahs out there like yourself otherwise who else will fight for us?! not men surely!!
I can't believe that...(http://news.cnet.com/2100-1023-271298.html)
I find out this other about divorce by email (http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/36761)
many men don't know that divorce is the halal thing most detested by Allah, Subhanah, May Allah guide them..
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