Polygamy scares the crap out of me.
There. I said it. Hate me.
If you aren't aware there are "P. Bloggers" (aka Polygamy bloggers) out there. Mostly first and a few second wives reiterating their stories. I have secretly followed many of their blogs, but I have never dared to link to them. Don't get me wrong. They are nice people in tough situations. Some entered willingly, others found out that the hubby married in secret. I don't want to be in their shoes though, and I pray they are at peace with their situations soon. Their stories sound different with a common pattern that is obvious to any reader.
The man decides to + new wife + old wife+ children = TROUBLE.
I am not married. The slight thought that this could be ME one day scares me. It seems , most men like the idea of having more than one wifey. I mean, if I was a man I'd probably like it too. Two, three or four women running to please my every need. And, so what if I have to deal with their occasional drama, it's still a good deal--for the man that is!
I am not going to talk about the benefits of Polygamy and the wonderful things behind it. You can do a quick google search and I am sure you will find plenty of Islamic sites to provide you with the necessary information. Polygamy can solve many social problems if only it was followed Islamically.
If my husband walks in one day with a new wife, companion, mother to his new children, I will be hurt. Maybe he has his good reasons for it or maybe he doesn't. But it will hurt deep either way. I don't think any woman wants to share her man willingly. Just like no man wants to share his woman.
I can't picture my husband, my friend, my everything spending nights away from me to spend with ANOTHER. How can I be happy with that? I might accept it because I HAVE TO, but how dare he? Will he be happy if I decided to choose someone else over him?
Men in these situations think of their rights. They forget that marriage is also based on mercy and love. And where is mercy when you will cause your wife pain? If a man has any love and respect for his wife then he should consult with his wife first. The future wife isn't merely a new sex object, she is going to be family, part of the existing family that is. So, I believe it's essential that the family works together. And if part of the family is unhappy, how do they expect things to work out? Unless someone is going to oppress their true feelings ( usually the woman)?
Oppression isn't rewarded with paradise. Allah created us free, which means if you are unhappy with something: get out!
Polygamy inevitably hurts the first wife. Deeply. And she won't ever be happy again. I know I wouldn't. I would be miserable. Trapped. Still loving the same man but not being able to forgive him for that pain. It will never be the same. NEVER. No matter what a man says, a woman will feel less loved and cared for. After all, he chose someone else.
I am so hurt even writing about the controversial topic. I guess it's because my nature is monogamous. I only want one man. For men, they can be with many women and not feel an ounce of guilt. Their love will remain the same for the first, second, third and fourth--or so they claim! I guess God created them that way for a reason or our culture has shaped them to think this way.
Here I want to note, with all the urges and needs, wouldn't a husband consider the damage it will do to his existing wife? The sahbyat (companions of the Prophet pbuh) practiced polygamy with no hesitation. It was part of the culture norm at the time. What men don't realize, it no longer is today. Even in Saudi where polygamy is widely practiced has become an unpopular practice among the new generation.
Will I ever understand Polygamy?
No I won't.
Some women like polygamy. I can't deny that Allah made it permissible. Polygamy works for a few people, but it surely isn't for everyone. I guess I am not one of them. I don't think I ever will be, I would rather die because to me Polygamy feels like cheating. And I can't apologize for how I feel.
136 reflections:
I agree with you, Organic. No matter what, I could never live with it, never accept, just...never. I could not bear it.
I've never seen a polygyny situation where it didn't cause pain...and that always makes me wonder.
We hear endlessly about the "man's rights", but what about a woman's rights? What about her right that her husband not cause her needless pain? What about her right to live in love and security? I'm tired of hearing about a "man's right"! Men already have every advantage in this world. Why are women expected to give up all their rights in service to a man?
As a man, I can certainly say I would never take more than one wife. Is it possible to love more than one person? I think so. But to me, something that comes with marriage is total devotion to somebody, and a person does not have 200%, 300%, 400% of himself to give. They only have 100%. And that would have to be divided. As they say, love is a verb. And that love comes from time spent (together or simply thinking about someone). But you can't think about four people at once.
Nonetheless, the role of polygamy in Islam makes sense. Something worse than a woman having to share her husband would be many women left alone their entire lives simply because of a lack of eligible bachelors. Think about the jealousy this would cause. Think about the kind of competition this would create.
Islam only allows for a man to take multiple wives in a situation where there is a gender population imbalance. However, if there were many more men than women, would men need to share wives? Could a woman then take more than one husband? This is a question, which I feel does not get a fair answer in what is still a largely male-dominated society. Since the scholars who receive the most credence today are male, I think an unbiased ruling on polyandry will not arise.
One thing I really believe in is that most men are polygamous(by nature or by culture I do not know). Even Jesse Jackson and Bill Cosby looked outside the nest for God's sake. The problem with polygamy as with everything else nowadays is that it is not carried out as God designed it to be, leading to TROUBLE. What many Muslim men fail to realize is that monogamy in Islam is the rule, polygamy should be the exception and it is to be done in certain circumstances, and in a way that will not harm the family.
I agree with you, it also has a lot to do with the culture and the time.
I don't agree with polygamy. Never have. Never will. Bas!
OOOO look at that really long comment! See! People DO read your blog.
Anyway.
Polygamy SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I refuse to accept it for any reason. And if he even tries, he will loose all 3 special parts of himself very quickly. Which, you know, is not actually true. In the end I think I would just leave him. I would wish he would die but... you know. I'm not actually without a heart.
It's extremely difficult because we are no longer conditioned for it culturally (and i don't think it was ever easy anyway). I am one of the few who thinks it is possible for it to benefit women, but ONLY if it is done properly i.e openly with consent of all parties, and for good reason (most of which don't arise in our circumstances today).
Unfortunately it tends to bring out the worst in people, partly because it's rarely done fairly and partly because it's just very hard.
I could have written Alienbea's comment - it's exactly how I feel. I could never accept a co-wife. No matter the reason.
It's strange, is it not that even non-Muslims know about this 4 wives thing but NOBODY seems to know the responsibilities that come with it?
Isn't it strange that some Muslim men are all gung-ho with the "angels will curse you if you refuse sex" thing or "it's my right to take another!" but then so lax about treating their wives with kindness or giving charity and praying 5 times a day?
Come to think of it, not that strange really.
Organic, part of me is going "WHOO HOO, you tell 'em Lady!" but then there is the other part of me that would like to think a man can do it Islamically. I do tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt.
Never the less, I TOTALLY admire you for being so honest. You are my hero of the day.
OM - I couldn't agree with you more. I think Polygamy doesn't solve anything, just creates more problems.
Love and Hugs to you!
As-salaamu 'alaykum, OM. Likewise, I too vehemently disagree with polygamy and polygyny. As a man, I see only two options as ideal: abstinence or a monogamous marriage. Remember, the first marriage was monogamous, between Aadam and Hawwaa'.
Glad you finally decided to post this.
I often hear "polygamy when practiced properly......"
I'm going to say that polygamy, even when practiced properly, still sucks for the woman. It still is painful. Does it hurt any less if you husband is fair in dividing his time? To me...NO and that's because whether he divides his time fairly I'm still only getting half of it.
I can't imagine living my life where my husband has happiness, comfort, support and pleasure every day of the week while i get to enjoy all of those things for only half of my time.
First rule that nowadays men ingnores is that :this important matter should be discussed with first wife before anything takes place , and here there are a good firewall woman can do to prevent polygamy she can simply put in her (katb ktab) that man should have my approval first before having a second wife , if it is not written than he will be required only to inform her but her approval doesnt matter , islamic part didnt require woman approval , but law can secure that for her (and here man is commited to this by law and comitted to informing her by islam he is in a tight spot really :) )
Polygamy is not for communities where number of male is close to female ,it is for communities where male is much fewer than female , in this communities woman should think about those who will suffer lonely life till death , polygamy is not pleasure as it is merci for those who will suffer without it .
and first wife should consider this when thinking about polygamy , ofcourse man cant be fair in his relation with both of them , but islam ordered him to be fair .. doing his best to make each one feel that she is filling his life .
men are numerically decreasing due to staff like wars and number of male born compared to females , so eventually world will -someday- need polygamy for retrieving balance to community .
I am a man and I dont like the idea. I love my wife and our children. I know how little time I get to devote to them now, I can only imagine if I had to share that time.
It wouldnt be fair to the children, to the women, even to myself. I would feel guilty at not being able to spend time with all of them.
I think 99% of Muslim men who take more than one wife do so for the wrong reasons. In The Qur'an and the time of the Prophet they did so to protect women, take divorced or widowed women, to help keep families together.
Now old men flock to places like Yemen, Egypt and Morroco to buy young women. It is wrong. What, in God's name, does a 60 year old man want from a 16 year old girl from Cairo? It is abuse to make her suffer in such a relationship.
There are only a few places on earth where the practice, I think, can be justified on religious grands. Chechnya is one, because so many men have died if some men didnt take multiple wives many women might never have a chance to marry and have children. Iraq might be another place that is heading that direction.
If these guys want to follow the Sunnah, why take young unmarried girls? Why not take older divorced or widowed women? The women, who because of the culture, will probably never be able to marry again?
THAT is what the Prophet did. But when it comes to that part of the Sunnah, they are not interested.
i vote for abu sinan
Couldn't agree with you more...
Alienbea:
I want one sheikh to come out and explain polygamy from a woman's view. Women have feelings and they need to be taken care of!
I am also tired of hearing about men and the few sheikhs who dare to venture in the women's right arena are cast as "progressive!"
go figure!
Shan: I was happy to read your comment. We need more Muslim youth that think your way. Do you think part of your thinking is due to your ethnic background (Pakistanis rarely practice polygamy) and also the environment you were brought up in (i.e. Western world) might have influenced your opinion?
I agree. Polygamy makes sense when needed. I don't think Polygamy is needed in the Western world. I think it might be a good practice in a remote village in some Moutain in Afghanistan, where most men have been killed as a result of civil war and hunger.
Glad we agree!
~W~: I think so too. Polygamy isn't for everyone. And I am still awaiting for a good polygamous marriage in our day today. PLEASE PROVIDE IT.
Because I have heard of none. Even the one TV Show that discussed polygamy on Iqraa this Ramadan, interviewed a girl who was brought up in a polygamous marriage. She said she would never be part of polygamy...Wouldn't she be the first to love it, since she grew up thinking that polygamy was the cultural norm?
That tells me a lot!
Suroor: I hope Aly agrees ;)
Julianna: I know how you feel. Especially as a non-Muslim it must be hard to understand. But you don't have to worry because you got the promise!
Jamila:
"openly with consent of all parties, and for good reason (most of which don't arise in our circumstances today)."
Exactly! I don't have a problem with polygamy as long as every party involved consents and agrees to the given situation. If a woman doesn't have the right to agree to being in a polygamous marriage, at least she should have the right to GET OUT! And alhumdulilah Allah provided her with the right.
Not every woman wants to share her man.
On the other hand, I know Polygamy can benefit women in many ways. Especially women who really need to be married.
I object to the haraam ways our dear brothers practice today to get married. It mostly starts in Haraam (an affair)
which is cheating in my book, even if it ends up with a halal marriage.
Starting a new family will involve the existing family, therefore both parties should be on good terms to make this work. The new family becomes a huge part of the existing marriage.
The husband used to spend 6 hours a day with wife and children, now he will spend 3 or less, and probably will have to work more.
Afterall, college tuition isn't cheap for all the little ones!
Tasmiya: "I could never accept a co-wife. No matter the reason."
You see Tasmiya not all women feel the same. Some women, especially in the MiddleEast, need a man to survive. Alhumdulilah, one of the benefits of living in the West, us women can survive alone! We don't need a man to tend to our every need and fight our battles.
So for some women, becoming a third or second wife is the only way they can survive. And because Allah created us all different, I can see why they will consent to the situation. So that's why I never like to say "never!" Only Allah knows what will become of us, may Allah make it easy..Ameen.
And I agree. Men today, especially our dear religious ones, they have those good hadeeths and Quranic verses that empower them and forget the other main ones that encourage a man to be kind to his family!
Caring for your wife's feeling is part of being kind.
And let's not forget the favorite Hadeeth among the brothers...the one where RasullAllah (pbuh) said,(paraphrased) if I asked a woman to bow to anyone after Allah, it would be the husband.
They literally follow it but fail to see the beauty in the sentiment. RasulAllah is teaching a wife to love and respect her husband, not become his SLAVE!
Rain: I never questioned that Allah hasn't made it permissible. I am a believer in Allah, his messenger and the Holy Quran. I believe that Allah is AL ADL (Most Just) and I believe that Islam is perfect.
However, I don't believe that the followers of Islam are perfect. If the reason that most people on here almost "hate" polygamy, it's because it has been abused by the people who chose to follow it.
A man can practice Polygamy Islamically, but what is really Islamic? Hurting your wife and ruining your existing marriage for another marriage you are unsure that will actually survive?
Islam encourages us to live with our spouses in harmony. Making your woman miserable isn't the right road to happiness, don't you think?
And honestly, most men marry today for SEX. They get tired of their wives and want someone different.
As Abu Sinan said, men forget the Sunnah of marrying divorced and widowed women with children. They just marry the cute "virgin" to fulfill a dumb fantasy.
Not Islam yo!
Layla: Not always Layla. Most of the examples I've seen today have cause more trouble than solve. But I am sure there are a few good cases, I don't like to be bias all the way.
If you are Muslim, then you must accept polygamy part of Islam, but you don't have to accept it for yourself!
AbdulQuddus: Good logic. I don't disagree with Polygamy, I disagree with the way it's practiced today and how it's applied.
We live in a different world today. Our lives are busier with less time to spend with our nuclear families. How will a father find time to balance work, both households and religious duties!
And let's not speak of the financial burdens!
UmmAbdurRahman: You said:
"even when practiced properly, still sucks for the woman."
I disagree. I believe it was practiced right, then it won't suck for either party. Because when practiced correctly, then the first wife will be aware of what her husband is about to do. She might agree or disagree. Real polygamy will help the marriage, not shred it into pieces.
As I said before, Polygamy isn't for everyone. It works for a few cases. Some people need to marry a second wife. It could be because a husband needs aren't met by one wife alone, or the wife is unable to fulfill her duties and would rather see him marry than leave her altogether.
We must understand that not every person is AMERICAN, living in a nice house with AC. A lot people in the world are alone, scared and in dire need for support. Sometimes polygamy will help secure them.
I believe that Islam is perfect and Allah would never allow something that was injust.
Therefore, some of the followers are doing something wrong.
The problem isn't Islam.
MeshMesh: Bizabt! Islam wouldn't allow a first wife's consent because the second marriage is personal. Yani, the first wife is part of the family but she isn't the person getting married. However, I believe it's obligatory that a husband inform his wife that he is marrying someone else. Suddenly her husband is only with her half the time and is paying attention to another woman. It's not kind or courteous to do that to anyone yet to the mother of your children!
Alhumdulilah, women can put conditions in their marriage contract and I think that's the best protection for any woman (which I am planning to include myself inshAllah).
And yes, some communities have higher female population than male population. And I believe polygamy will help a great deal. Places torn by war is where polygamy is ideal.
Also we must remember that culturally some places accept polygamy better.
However, I believe that men shouldn't practice Polygamy in the West or certain Arab countries. Women in the West can survive without a man.
If a man wants to marry a second wife in the Middle East, I suggest he use the money instead to help a poor male relative get married. As we know, the reason "3orfi" or secret marriages have increased in numbers in our countries is due to the lack of opportunities and resources for real marriage.
So when men practice polygamy and they are really thinking for the better good of the community, then they should think of the single young males who are weak and also have desires!
Abu Sinan: Again, I am glad to see Muslim brothers thinking this way.
Finally someone thinking of the wife and children! If you work 9 to 5 job, spend an 2 hours on commuting, when will you spend time with the wife and children?
And I agree. Men are always practicing the fun part of the sunnah "getting married part" but they forget to marry the undesirable sisters (widowed, divorced or the unmarried mothers).
A poor woman will stand by her man in every situation. She will take on a second job to help her husband get on his feet. She will live poorly to help her husband save money for his dream business, but the day he is strong with money: HE PAYS HER BACK BY CHEATING AND MARRYING SOMEONE ELSE.
No matter what. It's obvious when a man marries someone else he is sending the message: "I am sick of you, I want something different"
I am not saying don't practice polygamy, for Allah's sake, practice it RIGHT!
Liya: Thanks for your input sweets!
Sherif: I don't think it's bothering as many people because not many men are running marrying more women. I think it's kept under the covers and people feel afraid to discuss how they feel. Personally this discussion has helped me realize where I stand exactly on the issue.
Of course the first or second wife will have different opinions. The first wife usually has no option, but the second does!
Some women really love their husbands they would do anything to please him. Even if that means they must step on their own happiness.
If you read above, most commenters agree that Polygamy is practical in many situations. But again, it's not for EVERYONE!
Please explain how Maqased il shari3a explain why polygamy should be in demand by women? I am curious!
Marriage isn't easy with two people yet alone with children and different spouses.
And of course we can't stop the whole thing. Because I am totally getting married so I can have someone carry my heavy bags!
Women hate polygamy? It seems some men hate it too, the nice ones that is ;)
Go Shan! Go MeshMesh! Go AbulQuddus! Go Abu Sinan!
I wanted to clarify my statement a bit.
What i was meaning is that even if a man goes for polygamy 100% halal. Even if he divides his time and money equally. even if he was honest. even if he asked his first wife's opinion. It still hurts! It's still painful. It's still lonely. My point is that most women, first wives, if they had the choice would rather not share their men. So, no matter how noble or how hard they try there will still be hurt feelings. Feelings of inadequacy and resentment on the side of the first wife.
Hope that makes more sense than what i first said.
THere is no doubt in my mind that Polygamy is allowed, under certain circumstances. Having said that I have NEVER seen a polygamous relationship that was done the "right" way. All too often men use polygamy as a status symbol, ego stroker, solution to sexual addiction etc. Many times it is shrouded in secrecy: husbands take a new wife with out notifying wife #1. I've seen men that were brave enough to promise wife #2 the world, and too cowardly to tell his own children. Let's not even get into the fact they rarely support each wife as they should.
I don't like polygamy. I agree with you Organic. It is in my marriage contract that if my Hubby takes another, we will divorce immediately, oh and I get spousal support. Consider putting this in your contract, dear Organic, any man who will not agree to it has some "tricks up his sleeve" ;-)
I got all nervous and didn't make it part of my contract.. but.. as you said I have the promise. Anyway, it was the whole hitch and decision-making process we went through-- it was the whole reason he was hesitant. he was deciding about how if he took me, he would be giving up his rights for any of that, and possibly giving up his life and his country... and since he chose me anyway, we knew he was giving up polygamy. But still. Eww. And yuck. And it is sooo tempting to rip a certain argument to shreds.
OM, Aly better agree or he'll lose his jewels ;)
Salaams OM
You said: If you are Muslim, then you must accept polygamy part of Islam, but you don't have to accept it for yourself!
I do accept it as a part of Islam and can see the reasoning behind it during the time of the Prophet. That is the only time I see it "halal". It is just in today's society, most of the men who want a polygamous marriage (most of them are middle-age farts going through their mid-life crisis) are doing it for all the wrong reasons. Maybe it is just seeing to many of these marriages go wrong makes me ill when thinking about it.
I am Muslim and I accept it, but I don't accept it in my marriage.
Love and Hugs to you!!!!
UmmAbdurRahman: I know what you meant but people on here didn't. A few men might think the same way of monogamy, they have to work, provide their wife and children where they can just live alone and keep money for themselves. It sucks in a way. But the benefits of being married are great.
And I agree. Women's feelings will always be hurt and jealous. Even the prophet's wives were jealous. We live in duniya, so jealousy and pain will always be part of the process!
Call me yo!
Julianna: He risked being shunned from the family, it's not simple.
Suroor: Alhumdulilah, I know he is. No one can match you, that's for sure!
Amani: You know habibity? I agree 100%, "I have NEVER seen a polygamous relationship that was done the "right" way."
And that's why a second wife accepts being a second wife. The first husband explains how horrible he's got it and it's haraam to divorce her and the kids? So let them both do charity for Allah, and take the first wife as a charity case.
So the second wife comes in feeling like a true wife! The husband chose her over the first. And at that point the woman is so blindly in love, she will accept anything--even sharing him!
Emotions blind people. And then this happens. After the honeymoon phase is over and the reality of marriage hits he discovers the grave mistake he made! And now wife#2 is pregnant and he can't get rid of her (or he will ask her to abort the baby, as in the case of some p.blogger).
It's all for SEX. And people throw in the pleasing Allah crap. I don't believe it. People who please Allah don't think of "me" they think of "everyone" else!
(this reminds me of a funny Egyptian movie Roushdy Abaza was in)
Layla: I have never seen a successful polygamous marriage in our day and age. The only good example was a man at my job. Both his wives worked at my job as well. A few months ago I learned they divorced.
See?
That was the day I lost hope altogether.
Amani:
I forget to say! Thanks for the advice on the contract. I will make sure to consult with you when I find the right man!
There is a wonderful article Cairogal linked to on her blog that I would like to share with all of you. The author discusses polygamy.
http://cairogal.blogspot.com/2007/03/muslim-polygamy-in-america.html
I really like (and 100% agree with) abu Sinan's comment.
@Ummabdulrahman:
I get what you're saying. I think that it's not in most women's nature to want to share her partner w/ another woman. Even if it's done Islamically, the woman will always end up w/ 1/2 a husband while the man gets two wives. Anyway you slice it, the man comes out on top. And as mentioned in the article, have a man marry widows in Afghanistan and you have a many who is seemingly acting w/ good conscience.
The first wife’s distress when her husband marries another wife is to be expected, and Allaah has set out rules and regulations to reduce these feelings or remove them altogether, by enjoining justice, patience in the face of adversity, and so on. Whatever the case, the fact that these feelings of distress and the dislike of polygamy exist does not justify condemnation of polygamy. Islam came to serve and increase people’s best interests, and to reduce harmful things and render them ineffective. There is no doubt that polygamy, when practised properly in accordance with Islam, achieves many things that are in people’s best interests (such as maintaining the chastity of the man who is not satisfied with one wife, taking care of and maintaining the chastity of the woman who has no husband, increasing the offspring of the Muslims, solving the problem of widows and spinsters, and of the reduced numbers of men after times of war, and so on). As regards the bad things that happen in cases of polygamy, either they are very small when compared to its benefits, or they stem from bad application of this practice. One of the rights which Islam gives to women is that a wife should have her own house, so the two wives do not have to live together under one roof. And Allaah knows best.
-Sheikh S. Al-Minajjid
1 – The ruling on plural marriage in Islam:
The shar’i text which permits plural marriage is:
Allaah says in His Holy Book (interpretation of the meaning):
“And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice”
[al-Nisa’ 4:3]
This is a Qur’aanic text which shows that plural marriage is allowed. According to Islamic sharee’ah, a man is permitted to marry one, two, three or four wives, in the sense that he may have this number of wives at one time. It is not permissible for him to have more than four. This was stated by the mufassireen (commentators on the Qur’aan) and fuqaha’ (jurists), and there is consensus among the Muslims on this point, with no differing opinions.
It should be noted that there are conditions attached to plural marriage:
1 – Justice or fairness.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one”
[al-Nisa’ 4:3]
This aayah is indicates that just treatment is a condition for plural marriage to be permitted. If a man is afraid that he will not be able to treat his wives justly if he marries more than one, then it is forbidden for him to marry more than one. What is meant by the justice that is required in order for a man to be permitted to have more than one wife is that he should treat his wives equally in terms of spending, clothing, spending the night with them and other material things that are under his control.
With regard to justice or fairness in terms of love, he is not held accountable for that, and that is not required of him because he has no control over that. This is what is meant by the verse,
“You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire”
[al-Nisa’ 4:129 – interpretation of the meaning].
2 – The ability to spend on one’s wives:
The evidence for this condition is the verse:
“And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allaah enriches them of His Bounty”
[al-Noor 24:33 – interpretation of the meaning]
In this verse Allaah commands those who are able to get married but cannot find the financial means, to remain chaste. One such example is not having enough money to pay the mahr (dowry) and not being able to spend on one’s wife. (al-Mufassal fi Ahkaam al-Mar’ah, part 6, p. 286).
2 – The wisdom behind permitting plural marriage
1 – Plural marriage helps to increase the numbers of the ummah (nation, Muslim community). It is known that the numbers can only be increased through marriage, and the number of offspring gained through plural marriage will be greater than that achieved through marriage to one wife.
Wise people know that increasing the number of offspring will strengthen the ummah and increase the number of workers in it, which will raise its economic standard – if the leaders run the affairs of state well and make use of its resources in a proper manner. Ignore the claims of those who say that increasing the numbers of human beings poses a danger to the earth’s resources which are insufficient, for Allaah the Most Wise Who has prescribed plural marriage has guaranteed to provide provision for His slaves and has created on earth what is more than sufficient for them. Whatever shortfall exists is due to the injustice of administrations, governments and individuals, and due to bad management. Look at China, for example, the greatest nation on earth as far as number of inhabitants is concerned, and it is regarded as one of the strongest nations in the world, and other nations would think twice before upsetting China; it is also one of the great industrialized nations. Who would dare think of attacking China, I wonder? And why?
2 – Statistics show that the number of women is greater than the number of men; if each man were to marry just one woman, this would mean that some women would be left without a husband, which would have a harmful effect on her and on society:
The harmful effect is that she would never find a husband to take care of her interests, to give her a place to live, to spend on her, to protect her from haraam desires, and to give her children to bring her joy. This may lead to deviance and going astray, except for those on whom Allaah has mercy.
With regard to the harmful effects on society, it is well known that this woman who is left without a husband may deviate from the straight path and follow the ways of promiscuity, so she may fall into the swamp of adultery and prostitution – may Allaah keep us safe and sound – which leads to the spread of immorality and the emergence of fatal diseases such as AIDS and other contagious diseases for which there is no cure. It also leads to family breakdown and the birth of children whose identity is unknown, and who do not know who their fathers are.
Those children do not find anyone to show compassion towards them or any mature man to raise them properly. When they go out into the world and find out the truth, that they are illegitimate, that is reflected in their behaviour, and they become exposed to deviance and going astray. They may even bear grudges against society, and who knows? They may become the means of their country’s destruction, leaders of deviant gangs, as is the case in many nations in the world.
3 – Men are exposed to incidents that may end their lives, for they work in dangerous professions. They are the soldiers who fight in battle, and more men may die than women. This is one of the things that raise the percentage of husbandless women, and the only solution to this problem is plural marriage.
4 – There are some men who may have strong physical desires, for whom one wife is not enough. If the door is closed to such a man and he is told, you are not allowed more than one wife, this will cause great hardship to him, and his desire may find outlets in forbidden ways.
In addition to that, a woman menstruates each month, and when she gives birth, she bleeds for forty days (this post-partum bleeding is called nifaas in Arabic), at which time a man cannot have intercourse with his wife, because intercourse at the time of menstruation or nifaas is forbidden, and the harm that it causes has been proven medically. So plural marriage is permitted when one is able to be fair and just.
5 – Plural marriage does not exist only in the Islamic religion, rather it was known among the previous nations. Some of the Prophets were married to more than one woman. The Prophet of Allaah Sulaymaan (Solomon) had ninety wives. At the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), there were some men who became Muslims who had eight or five wives. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told them to keep four wives and to divorce the rest.
6 – A wife may be barren, or she may not meet her husband’s needs, or he may be unable to have intercourse with her because she is sick. A husband may long to have children, which is a legitimate desire, and he may want to have a sex life within marriage, which is something permissible, and the only way is to marry another wife. It is only fair for the wife to agree to remain his wife and to allow him to marry another.
7 – A woman may be one of the man’s relatives and have no one to look after her, and she is unmarried or a widow whose husband has died, and the man may think that the best thing to do for her is to include her in his household as a wife along with his first wife, so that he will both keep her chaste and spend on her. This is better for her than leaving her alone and being content only to spend on her.
8 – There are other shar’i interests that call for plural marriages, such as strengthening the bonds between families, or strengthening the bonds between a leader and some of his people or group, and he may think that one of the ways of achieving this aim is to become related to them through marriage, even if that is through plural marriage.
Objection:
Some people may object and say that plural marriage means having co-wives in one house, and that the disputes and enmity that may arise between co-wives will have an effect on the husband, children and others, and this is harmful and should be avoided, and the only way to prevent that is to ban plural marriage.
Response to the objection:
The response to that is that family arguments may occur even when there is only one wife, and they may not even happen when there is more than one wife, as we see in real life. Even if we assume that there may be more arguments than in a marriage to one wife, even if we accept that they may be harmful and bad, the harm is outweighed by the many good things in a plural marriage. Life is not entirely bad or entirely good, but what everyone hopes is that the good will outweigh the bad, and this principle is what applies in the permission for plural marriage.
Moreover, each wife has the right to her own, separate accommodation as prescribed in Islam. It is not permissible for the husband to force his wives to live together in one house.
Another objection:
If we allow men to have plural wives, why are women not allowed to have multiple husbands, why does a woman not have the right to marry more than one man?
Response to this objection:
There is no point in giving a woman the right to marry multiple husbands, rather that is beneath her dignity and she would not know the lineage of her children, because she is the one who bears the offspring, and it is not permissible for the offspring to be formed from the sperm of a number of men lest the lineage of the child be lost and no one will know who is responsible for bringing up the child; this will lead to breakdown of families, loss of ties between fathers and children, which is not permitted in Islam as it is not in the interests of the woman or of the child or of society as a whole.
Al-Mufassal fi Ahkaam al-Mar’ah, part 6, p. 290
And a personal note from me. I find it astonishing that as I read some of the blogs of women that many are so quick to say, "Leave your husband." You say that Islam is not for oppression. That is correct. However, you're saying that polygamy is oppressive. You say,” And if part of the family is unhappy, how do they expect things to work out? Unless someone is going to oppress their true feelings ( usually the woman)?
Oppression isn't rewarded with paradise. Allah created us free, which means if you are unhappy with something: get out!"
However, you either pick and choose what parts of the deen you want to acknowledge or you're lacking in knowlegde. To say that polygamy, as prescribed by Allah is oppressive is kufr (disbelief). Secondly, if a woman leaves/divorces her husband for a reason that is not sanctioned by Islam, then the prophet (saw) said,"the smell of jannah is haraam for her." That's serious. Lastly, just because something in Islam may be difficult/challenging or disliked by you that doesn't mean that it is oppression or not what's good for you. Again, when the sahaba went into jihad many didn't celebrate it. Many didn't like it however, Allah said to them that, "you may dislike something that is good for you." And further more when you say that polygamy was practiced during the time of the sahabiyyat but is not practical now, you're calling a part of Allah's way obsolete or out of date which is also kufr. If I were you I would be more careful what thoughts u let run from your lips and consider before you speak if your words are from your nafs pushing you towards your own desires and to act in your own self-interests above what's best for society or the shaitan toying with you in order to cause fitna. Remember that many sisters read this blog and if you misguide them not only are they punished for their wrong deeds but as will you be. So fear Allah, and study more thoroughly the way of Allah and his rasool (saw). And don't be arrogant, which is defined by Islam as thinking you're better or know better than others and denying the truth when it comes to you. Refer your greivences to the scholars and those that are truly learned, not to your own reason because that will land anyone who does that into the hellfire. May Allah bless you and grant you jannah.
First let me start with
Salaamu alaikum
I believe that's the proper greeting between Muslims--check the sunnah bro, or maybe I am not "worthy" or even Muslim enough in your eyes. Who knows?
Second, You have accused me of many things in your lengthy comment:
Arrogant
Borderline Kafarah
Causing Fitnah
Misguiding Sisters
Punishable in Hellfire
Misguided
This isn't proper adab akhi. Where is the benefit of the doubt here? Calling me arrogant? La ilah Ila Allah, you don't even know me, you've read a hundred words or so from me.
Are we being a little judgmental?
You are entitled to your opinion and I understand where you are coming from.
If you take the time to read my responses to my commenters, you will find that I "defend" polygamy, but the Islamic version, not the unislamic one.
Polygamy isn't a right! Polygamy is an option.
I don't pick or choose part of my deen, please refrain from accusing me of things. You don't know me.
I am discussing reality here. Check out the comments on here. Our dear scholars are good at giving fatwas but they aren't discussing the problems occurring in our Ummah today, and Polygamy is one of the problems!
So I am a kaffir for questioning the way a permissible thing is practiced today in our Ummah?
I am speechless.
And ya akhi (aka A Brother), please share your blog, if you have one, so we can learn from your great knowledge, since we all of us on here are misguided and need some teaching!(I wonder who is being arrogant here?)
P.S: A clear fatwa by sheikh Ibn uthaymeen states that a woman can hate Polygamy for herself as long as she acknowledges it's part of the deen!
Firstly, being as tho I'm new to this sight, giving salaam is not something all posters do So I didn't know if you're muslim or not. So as salaamu alaikum. However, I didn't call you a kaffur or arrogant. I warned you against arrogance. And, just because someone commits kufr or disbelief doesn't make them a kaffur. Calling a part of Allah’s bookd or deen oppressive is definitely an act of kufr. Doesn’t make u a kaffur tho. Please understand the difference. Also if you noticed, the majority of my comment post wasn't from me at all, and so that clearly illustrates that I never in anyway claimed to have "Great knowledge" instead I referred what I don't know to those who did. Allah says in the qur'an,"We have not created you but as a reminder to one another so remind." If that's a bad thing then, show me where I went wrong in reminding you. And you should remind me. I never accused you personally of being anything. In the blog, however, you definately misguide in telling sisters to "Leave!" So no, I'm responding to your words, not attacking you. When you speak or in this case post in front of others, be prepared for others to disagree and offer differing points of view. You may agree or disagree. However, the truth is what is important and personally attacking offers no benefit. I never said, "you are a such and such" My comments were restricted solely to what you posted. And, in the end of the post I believe I did leave you with words of peace and blessings, I thought, showing my tone was not antagonistic but instead well-intended. So if I offended u, that wasn't the intent. And it is proper adab to remind one another in what is true. And if I made a mistake in something that Islam says then tell me and I will accept it. But this is nothing personal to me. So don't take my comment as a personal affront to you. But if you have something from deen in which I was incorrect or from the fatawa of the shiyookh that I posted then please let me know. As salaamu alaikum wa rahma tu lah.
My handle states clearly I am Muslim: Organic Muslimah
I am open to criticism and I did state that I understand where you are coming from, but I am too offended to want to listen to your advice. Please understand!
P.S.
The fatwa you refer to of uthaymeen (R) is correct. However, with you calling polygamy oppressive and stating that it's a reason to leave ones husband, or that polygamy isn't needed in the west maybe in the mts. of afhganistan, you're saying in other words that allah's deen isn't applicable anywhere. That's beyond bounds. That's beyond the realm of what sh. uthaymeen says, whatn you say it isn't need in america. Anywhere islam justifies polygamy, salaat, fasting, etc as it is in the qur'an and sunnah then it's needed and a part of the religion. You nor I can offer our opinion over Islam or pick and choose, from something that's complete, that which suits our feelings.
So salaam, salaam. And let's move on. It's just about the deen. So I apoligize for the offense again. I truly mean that.
" Anywhere islam justifies polygamy, salaat, fasting, etc as it is in the qur'an and sunnah then it's needed and a part of the religion."
So I guess polygamy should be the 6th pillar of Islam then? You know, being that it is equivalent to salaat and fasting...
Who said it was equal those pillars, as you state my comments out of context? The illustration was that it's in qur'an expressly just as salaat and fasting are.
First: Where do I say Polygamy is oppressive?
I state "Unless someone is going to oppress their true feelings ( usually the woman)?"
"Oppression isn't rewarded with paradise. Allah created us free, which means if you are unhappy with something: get out"
I never state that Polygamy is oppressive. I say that if a woman feels oppressed, where she isn't happy, whether it being monogamous or polygamous marriage, she shouldn't be in it! Do you remember the the woman who wanted to divorce her husband because she didn't like him. Period. And she was allowed to divorce him. Imagine if a woman is feeling oppressed. She has the right to leave! Have you never heard of Khlu?
Second: Please don't equate Salaat and Polygamy. Salat is fard. Polygamy is not a right, polygamy is an option that you are allowed to practice under certain conditions (refer to the fatwa you posted). And I don't believe that every man can just marry right away. He must make sure the first family is taken care of!
Some scholars have said that Polygamy isn't allowed in the West because that involves lying to the government you are living under. The second wife has no rights under the law in the West and therefore, she loses her rights. Out of protection, she should marry legally. And if you want to marry another, then pick a country that allows it.
And last I checked, Lying is HARAAM.
"P.S.
The fatwa you refer to of uthaymeen (R) is correct. However, with you calling polygamy oppressive and stating that it's a reason to leave ones husband, or that polygamy isn't needed in the west maybe in the mts. of afhganistan, you're saying in other words that allah's deen isn't applicable anywhere. That's beyond bounds. That's beyond the realm of what sh. uthaymeen says, whatn you say it isn't need in america. Anywhere islam justifies polygamy, salaat, fasting, etc as it is in the qur'an and sunnah then it's needed and a part of the religion. You nor I can offer our opinion over Islam or pick and choose, from something that's complete, that which suits our feelings."
You equate it through your analogy, and there, now you're now out of context. You should figure out a better analogy, perhaps with things that are not pillars of religion. You state that it's (as part of your 3 examples: salaat, fasting and polygamy) NECESSARY when you say it's "needed and part of the religion." NEEDED = Necessary.
Firstly, Anyone can scroll to your post and see what you said. So I don't need to address that.
Secondly, polygamy is a right of the man. And the woman has rights as well that need to be fulfilled in that. So if a man is prepared to take care of the women and his family then it's his right to marry up to four.
Lastly name the scholars that said,"Polygamy isn't allowed in the West because that involves lying to the government you are living under." And, site where they said it. So if this is correct I can correct myself.
What makes marriage halal? The word of Allah or the US gov't?
@Julliana, you're somewhere else. You feel how you want to about what I said. I clarified what I said, and that's all that's needed.
Responding to the question, Zeinab Al-`Alawani, instructor of f iqh and Islamic Studies, Graduate School of Islamic and Social Sciences, states the following:
First of all, it seems to me you were OK with your first wife from whom you got a child, so why did you practice polygamy while it is illegal in the UK?
Secondly, if your first wife told you previously that she is going to divorce you if you plan to get a second wife, why you did not respect her choice if you agreed with it in the first place? If you know that according to law you have to divorce your first wife before you take the second one, why did you not do it?
Marriage and divorce are not a game, and Almighty Allah gave the most details in the Qur'an about how solemn this contract is, especially the role of men in protecting and maintaining their wives.
I think you made this issue complicated and you have to accept the consequences. It seems to me that the only option you have is either to divorce one of them legally because you can only be married to one wife under the law, or to move to a country where polygamy is legal and you keep your two wives, if they accept this decision and are willing to do it.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1157365810449
Salamu Alaikum brother..
It also seemed, to me, that you were equating polygamy with prayer and fasting.
I find it interesting that men are such strong proponents of polygamy, but I dont see any rallies for slavery. It's my right to buy that man and I will do it now. You can't take it away from me. It's my right.
If you want another wife, better go buy a slave too. Remember, based on your statement, if it's in the qur'an it's appropriate every where and every time.
A reminder, just because it is allowable doesnt mean it is mandatory or even recommended.
Dear brother, I will share with you a story I read from another muslim man(a blogger) and how it relates to his wife. He mentioned that in islam there is justices and fairness. There are times when som allowable things can become haraam for you. His wife has been very kind, loving, and patient throughout their marriage. She helped him in ever aspect of his life, including helping him in his religion when he was lacking. He said that taking another wife would hurt her deeply. She would deal with it but she would never be the same. She wouldn't treat him the same. He then asked the question, "Is this how i repay her kindness. Is this how i show her how much I lover her and appreciate her sacrifice through all these years. NO!" There is reciprocity in islam. You should expect to receive what you give. Good behavior and kindess should be rewarded with good behavior and kindness, not pain and heartache.
That's just someone stating their opinion and reasoning from their intellect. Ali (RA), said,"If this deen was about the intellect, then we would wipe the bottom of the khufain rather than the top." This person didn't show any daleel for what they said from the qur'an and sunnah. It's simply their opinion and they reasoned according to their own intellect. Please show me someone who says, based on the QUR'AN AND SUNNAH, that," Polygamy isn't allowed in the West because that involves lying to the government you are living under."
Because it is the word of Allah that makes a woman halal for a man and a man halaal for a woman. Not any gov't. And no gov't can give a woman any rights over what Allah and his messenger have prescribed.
So please show me the proof from the qur'an and sunnah for what you're saying, not someone's opinion.
I'm going to bed. This is a circus. As salaamu alaikum.
@UmmAbdurRahman, if it did in fact seem that I was equating polygny with salaat and fasting in that those two things are pillars and are wajib, that was not my intention. So that's my mistake. However, I did say polygamy previously, that polygamy in islam is relevent anywhere Islam sanctions it. Meaning, where there is a reason according to Islam for a man to get another wife then it is halaal. Whether it should or shouldn't be done or whether it is best in any given situation then that's up to the family and the people that guide and counsel them. And I did say the wife has rights just as the husband has rights. And never did I say that polygamy was wajib. Because that's not what I'm saying. Polygamy is a clear system in Islam and there are rules and regulation governing it. Most men haven't taken the time to learn them and haven't talked with others who are already in polgynous marriages; successful ones in order to learn. So this is not some party for the man. In fact, the prophet (saw) said, that polygny is the only sunnah that can take you to the hellfire. So no, at least I do no see it as some party time situation for a man. It's a very serious thing and it's for the betterment of the family which results in the betterment of society.
As far as slavery is concerned, Islam only allows slavery as a result of war with non-muslims and taking non-muslim men and women as slaves. In no other situation is it allowed.
Shaykh al-Shanqeeti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The reason why a person may be taken as a slave is his being a kaafir and waging war against Allaah and His Messenger. If Allaah enables the Muslims who are striving and sacrificing their lives and their wealth and all that Allaah has given them to make the word of Allaah supreme over the kaafirs, then He allows them to enslave the kuffaar when they capture them, unless the ruler chooses to free them or to ransom them, if that serves the interests of the Muslims.
Adwa’ al-Bayaan, 3/387
So islam is complete in it's governing of something like slavery just as it is complete in its instruction on marriage.
Asalaamu Alaikum, "A Brother" --
I must ask you to consider the law of diminishing returns, or 'what am I getting from continuing on with this discussion?'. You call it a 'circus' but have you considered your own role in creating it? You are the one writing these novel-length screeds, the one dismantling the statements of your fellow posters; if that is not fostering a circus-like atmosphere, what is?
As regards polygyny, I always refer to what Sidi Faraz Rabbani said:
Though per se permissible, it is generally unwise and harmful for men to marry more than once in our times, because of the harm and wrong that inevitably results—as explained in the answers below.
(link: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?
HD=12&ID=3924&CATE=10 [unbreak the link, or go to sunnipath and search for polygyny, click on 'The Fiqh of Second Wife'])
If a scholar such as Sidi Faraz recognizes the potential harm resulting from polygyny, and advises against it, then it throws into doubt the status of polygyny as an unalienable right for any man who wishes to practice it. The problem that exists with most rulings about polygyny is that they focus on the right of the man to do so, which is undeniable, do not misunderstand me, but they fail to take into consideration the effect that polygyny has on the women and children involved. Therein lies the root of the problem: most polygynous marriages were undertaken without full and due consideration on the effects on everyone who will be directly touched by it. As UmmAbdurRahman pointed out: it always causes pain under the very *best* of situations. If causing this sort of pain is, in fact, entirely avoidable, why then should a man subject his wife and children to it? Which is better: the elevation of self above your family, or the elevation of your family above yourself? (Remembering, of course, that one always elevates Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and His Prophet sallallahu 'alaihi wa salaam above all others.)
P.S.: Clearly I am talking about your everyday, "Average Joe" Muslims here, and not exceptions to the rule. Chechnya and Afghanistan are exceptions and not the rule (at least not yet). Claiming that there are more women than men in the world is a bit disingenuous when China will have a serious shortage of women within the next 20 years and India also has a serious and very real problem of female infanticide which can only end up creating a situation much like China's. The world's two most populous countries with more men than women: if that's not a recipe for disaster, I don't know what is. Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, the split remains approximately 50/50 with women barely outnumbering the men.
Assalamu Aleikum wa Rahmatulahi wa Barakatuhu,
Dear sister,
I have commented a lot on sister's blog on the issue. I never encourage divorce, and I acknowledge that it is in Quran.
However, I have made it clear that it is a culturally sensitive thing and not all women have a personality suited for it. Even mention that Fatima (RA) did not like polygyny for herself and you will get lots of argument about it. I heard an argument that it this one sister that Ali (RA) wanted to marry that she didn't like. So then how come he couldn't find another sister? Frankly Ali(RA) never married another women while Fatima(RA) was alive. He married them after she had passed.
Also, the Prophet (SAWS) was married to Khadijah (RA) and only her when it was customary in Arabia to have more than 4 wives. He clearly expressly married the women he did AFTER the revelation because they were to become part of his work as a prophet (SAWS). At one point, he even said to one of his wives that he would divorce her if she wished because he was not being fair with her time-wise (he liked being with Aisha) and this older wife said that she did not mind that, she just wanted to stay one of his wives. He feared Allah(SWT) about this. Also this lady was older, with children, and widowed.
I truly am astounded at the cries of 'but it's the sunnah..." Truly brothers, so is getting up for a third of the night in prayer until your feet swell.
I, like some commenters, think that it is a man's right. If a man is honest with you, he should let you know his vision (as leader of the Muslim family) for his family and what he wants and expects from the marriage (and vice-versa, the lady should express her needs and wants as well) BEFORE they get married. That way it's all good. If a man wants to be polygynous, and the lady doesn't, then they are not suited for each other. This is what walis are for, etc.
Also, even Bin Baz who by some standards was very strict in his fatwas, said that even if you find your husband repulsive or physically don't like him, that is enough for you to get a divorce. This is also a women's right. Some women, frankly, view sex as a very intimate thing and they are very private and modest about this intimate relationship and they need to keep it intimate in order to trust and feel protected by their spouse. This is the bottom line with some women. So, if a woman knows that it is not intimate, as in also being shared with another, she may have reservations with her husband. That's probably one of the reasons why, if it is in her marriage contract, it should be respected. And I would argue with those of you who say that divorce is not a women's right if she feels oppressed, or disgusted with her mate.
Now, having said that, some say that dikhr and prayer should take part of a person's time and that a person should be moderate in their food, sleep, and sex. Are brothers taking this into consideration?
It is funny to me because although I feel my point of view is quite moderate there are those in the blog world that would say I am "feminist". LOL.
I believe Islam is a beautiful, easy to follow deen. We are to dwell in mercy, love, and tranquility with one another (spouses). And if we cannot do that, then we must fear Allah (SWT) in our treatment towards EACH OTHER. Starting by looking for representatives from our family to help keep the bond of marriage tied, and if after that counseling, a couple is still inclined towards hatred, or ill-treatment of each other, then the less of all evils is to be taken, and that is divorce, which is actually, despite what some say, not haram.
I know that it is disliked but it is not haram. Actually, sleeping in when one should be up to pray Fajr, is haram. Missing salat because you are afraid of your boss and what they will say is haram.
Let's keep things in perspective y'all.
Many of the sisters who say they wouldn't like to take part in polygyny aren't against it, they just see bad examples of it and they weren't inclined to do it in the first place. But let's face it, even if these same sisters were to see good examples of polygyny (and we have, as in the prophet's life), we still wouldn't be inclined. That doesn't mean we are not Muslims. It doesn't mean that we are not afraid of Allah and believe in His Book unconditionally. We also know that it is good to memorize Quran, and to do dawah, etc. Some of us are inclined to do dawah, others, will stay home and memorize Quran.
Insha'Allah, there are many doors to jannah. It would be nice if all the doors were open to all of us. But insha'Allah, many of us are hoping that at least one will open for us, and for that we may even struggle.
And just because you are in a polygynous situation, it doesn't mean that there is a door that opens to you that doesn't open for those of us in monogamous situations. Right?
I don't know. I think that was an admonition against taking more than one wife unless you could be fair. It sounds like a warning to me. But again, not my decision to make.
As long as we are trying to stay within boundaries and try to grow as believers, and especially hang on to the rope together, I think we should all learn to live and let live. I say, if you are in a polygynous marriage, Masha'Allah, if you are in a monogamous marriage, masha'Allah. To each his own, you know.
If you look at the discusssion on these blogs on the issue, it would seem that the sisters in polygynous situations, just want other sisters to be understanding without being judgemental (which we can be). And the sisters in monogamous relationships jsut want the sisters in polygyny to stop being judgemental about our choices as well. This is how I see it. I for one, and ready to drop it. No amount of naseeha will influence the one that is not even asking for it. Masha'Allah, may we all be blessed and happy in whatever situation we find blessings in. And may we recognize and be grateful for all blessings. May we not be lead by Shaytan to dislike each other and may we not be aids to the oppressors, whomever they may be.
Islam is perfect and we are not. Can't we just all love each other and respect our decisions?
Thanks for giving me space on your comments. I respectfully apologize if I said anything incorrect. Also, please let me know if I have said anything incorrect. :)
p.s. I came here via yearningforjennah's blog. She is my friend. We used to work together, even. :)
She can tell you I am a "real" person, not just a username. LOL
To All:
Thank you for your comments. I learned a lot from all the sisters and brothers on here.
It seems to me that there are two issues here: What is permissible and the emotional affects of the permissible acts.
So for example, Salat is fard, you can look at Salat from different angles, the physical and spiritual. The physical may include the number of Raka'at and the correct movements established by the Sunnah. On the other hand, we have the spiritual affects of Salat. For some, Salat will establish peace within, or it might develop fear in Allah. We are all different, therefore our reaction will be different, even if we are doing the same act. Agreed?
I think the problems with our fatwas today is they lack a psychological dimension. Our scholars have become robots of "halal or haraam," they forget that the fatwas issued are to humans, not robots.
When a man sends in a question about marrying a second wife, the scholars answer with "halal." They forget to answer back with the essential question: HOW WILL THIS AFFECT YOUR FAMILY Brother? Financially, physically, emotionally and socially! Just like Khlu (divorce from women's side) is allowed, the sheikhs sit you down and ask you why? When? How? IT'S HALAL BUT THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE MAKING THE RIGHT DECISION!
As Musulmana (welcome habibity!) stated, none of us are against polygamy. We are discussing what comes after Polygamy. Scholars focus on fairness. Okay, so he shares his bed 3 nights a week and 2 hours on Friday morning and gives her a cell phone because the second wife got a cell phone. This is one aspect of it, what about feelings?
Husband, wife #1 and wife #2 all have their feelings involved. Why do we fail to address each?
And that is the point of my post "POLYGAMY FEELS LIKE CHEATING" Please note the feeling. It's halal. Polygamy isn't cheating, but to some women, from their perspective it feels like their husband chose someone else, after years of sacrifice! Set aside what is halal and haram from the physical aspect, think in her shoes. If your friend after years of being together decides to replace you suddenly, won't you be hurt? It's halal to get another friend akhi! You will still see your friend everyday, but it will be different, you will be busy with your new friend, you won't give the SAME AMOUNT OF ATTENTION to the old friend? After all, you are only human.
Have you ever read the exchanges between RasulAllah and Sayda Aishah? Have you sense the love and mercy? Love and mercy doesn't equate taking care of the financial need of the household, it was real love. FEELINGS. And subhanAllah, wasn't RasulAllah the best at expressing his love to his wives?
RasulAllah was the best example, his wives loved him, but they still felt jealous, they were still hurt at times. IMAGINE a regular sister like myself akhi!
And as Muslumana mentioned, Sayida Fatima (ra) the daughter of the PROPHET didn't want polygamy and he respected her wishes. Ya akhi, the daughter of the prophet sacrificed for sayidna Ali (ra), do you see his appreciation? He had the full right to march and get another woman, but there is something we call in Arabic "3ishra" (the long life you live together). That's what makes a difference between your new friend and old friend. You shared so much with the old, they have more right over you.
A husband and wife know each other well. If you know your wife will be hurt and she will eventually fall into great depression and will not be happy in her life please have mercy on her. I won't lie to you, some woman can accept polygamy, but not everyone can. Thus, you see some women picking out the second wife themselves. I have a friend who did that. I admire her. But I can never do that. I am a jealous person by nature and I would love my husband so much, that I can't share him with anyone! Jealousy is a curse, but I am only human.
I also want to state, if I had studied fiqh, the discussion would have been more valid. No one on this site holds the required knowledge to debate fiqh (because all I see is a few fatwa links, again the robot stuff that doesn't answer ORGANIC MUSLIMAH'S QUESTIONS CONCERNS AND FEELINGS!). There are many rules. I remember Ibn Abdelaziz (a fellow blogger who studied a little fiqh) was explaining to me how sometimes marriage can be haraam for a person (there are rules to fiqh, just like there are rules to physics and mathematics).
I live in the United States and I have heard local shoyookh issue the ruling of Polygamy being haraam in the West. It was their personal Ijtihad and it was by word of mouth. Their reasoning is: you live in a country where it's illegal and where you can get arrested if one of your children open their mouths about the big secret! I have seen this myself. The children are taught to lie about their two mommies. SubhanAllah, if you really need polygamy, live somewhere where it's lawful to practice it!
Polygamy isn't fard, you can live without practicing it. But for example when in France they issue that it's illegal to wear Hijab in public institutions , I would disagree, because hijab is fard on a Muslimah--she must fight her rights!
And even some scholars encourage Muslims to fight for the right to legalize polygamy. Just like the homosexuals have been fighting for their rights, please start protesting--although I think we have better things to worry about first! Like education of the new Muslim generation and the corruption in every Islamic center and masjid.
This is my humble opinion. I fear Allah. And that is why I am loving the discussion. Keep it going in the proper adab.
Circuses are Halal, need a fatwa?
UmmAbdurRahman, Alienbea and Muslumana, I am glad we have Muslimahs in our Ummah as you!
As Salaamu Alaikum,
I find it a bit concerning that such a converation has arisen about an issue such as polgygny. The correct trem is Polygyny. Polygamy refers to men and women being able to marry more than one partner. Polygny is only a man marrying more than one wife. So, polygamy is not allowed in Islam; Polygny is.
Carrying on, the thing that concerns me is it seems that sisters, many on this board, and in fact in greater society are offended by men simply being men. If a man wants more than one wife then that's his choice and he can make it. If you don't like it as a woman, then bounce. And if you're so confident in your position then take it up with Allahu ta'ala on the yaum-ul-qiyamah.
But it's more than that, you're all just affected by feminism, where only women's rights matter and men must be docile lambs and repress their true nature. Bottom line, men like more than one woman, women like powerful men with resources. How Allah made us. If a man chooses to have more than one wife tho, that's on him.
Sisters just get over it. Women aren't equal to men, men are the maintainers of women. Women need to just stay in their place and keep their mouth shut.
OrganicMuslimah, are you even married? If you aren't please stop rapping about multiples wives when you don't even have one husband.
You women are feminists, whether you realize it or not.
NLKJWERKEJRERELKRLWKRE:
Wealykum as'salaam wa rahmtullhi wa baraktuh.
I love an Egyptian saying we have "Kol wa7id bi ban 3ala aslo" (Your true self shows eventually)
If a feminist means that I speak my opinion, then you labeled me right. No where on this blog have I denounced the right that Allah has given men. Read my responses carefully.
Equality doesn't mean fairness. As a Muslimah, I want fairness.
And I won't keep my mouth shut. I am a Muslimah, with the right to be educated and to speak my mind. Allah Al 3azeem has given me the right to be free. You can't take my freedom away from me. My place is right next to you dear brother! Because on the day of judgment we will be EQUALLY accounted.
Your attitude is what feeds the abusive mindset. You feel like you are better than women, like it's a God given right.
You said: "Women need to just stay in their place and keep their mouth shut."
What is that place dear brother? Do you want me to lock myself in the closet? Or tape my mouth with duct tape? Please tell me what to do, because I am a poor feminist woman, who needs your guidance, OH ya MAN, thank you for being better than me!
My marital status is irrelevant.
And I guess we are all dirty feminist y'all, do the happy dance!
woof woof.......what a dawg!
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Salamu Alaikum brother,
I would first like to say that Allah gives all of his creation rights, rights that do not trample on the rights of others. Women and men are in complementary roles, one is not better than the other.
I wonder if we look at the life of our prophet and the mothers of the believers we see the example of women "staying in their place and keeping their mouth shut?" NO, our prophet always consulted with his wives. took their valued opinions into consideration.
Let me remind you of some great women in our past and present history:
1. who was the first person to accept islam after the revelation? Could it be a woman....KHADIJAH.
2. who was the first martyr? Could it be a woman...SUMAIYYA.
3. who was the single person most responsible for transmitting the largest number of hadeeth?
Could it be a woman.....AISHA.
and lets not forget those mothers, who ever single day are involved in worship when they teach their children to read quran, they show them how to pray, they take care of their home, their husbands, and their children.
No one on this blog has tried to deny men the right of mulitple wives. Family is the basic institution in islam. The reasoning being to create strong stable families that will raise strong god-fearing children who will help to further spread this great religion. I think it's very interesting that man would tell his wife to "bounce" rather than maintaining the family he has.
Are u from a divorced family? Are you a child from a polygynous marriage?
It's very important because family is not just about what the husband(or wife for that matter) wants. It's about making a smart decision that will suit the entire family. Getting a new wife isn't like buying a car or getting a new suit. It's not a decision that affects him alone, but one that affects everyone around him.
I'm sorry but I'm afraid that it is impossible for Islam to be perfect if it allows for something that can cause such horrible pain to a human being. There are no pro-polygny debate that can change my mind on that. There are other ways to take care of people besides taking them on as part-time sex partners. Can't a man ever do anything charitable without needing sexual favors as payment? Sorry, just my opinion
Umm Haleema: In some cases Polygamy is a solution and it's not painful. It's difficult for me to even understand this because I live in the West and I have no one in my immediate community that has such a problem.
But remember, things are different in other parts of the world. The tribes in Africa (non-Muslim) practice polygamy and women accept it culturally.
Polygamy is permissible in Islam, under strict conditions that can't be fulfilled by everyone!
It's a mindset.
Thanks for stopping by and thank you for honesty.
nluvwithdakhira has finally had us open our eyes and see! Because yes, he/she (can't tell from your writing, do your naughty bits go in or out? Are you an innie or an outtie? So I'll refer to you as he/she, even though you're style is male-- I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt) is correct: polygyny is the correct term. I'm so thankful that you pointed out it's polygyny, being that everyone here was obviously confused with the incorrect anthropological term.
What concerns me though, is that after using the correct anthropological term, you then goes on to somehow lose your anthropological way. Culture and conditioning are all that make men behave the way they behave in regards to his/her example. It is NOT inherent for men to want multiple partners just as it is not inherent for women to only want one... and it is not inherent to wish for monogamy or polygamy. It is a socially and culturally structured system one way or the other. Please refresh your knowledge in cultural anthropology 101.
Polygamy has been the ideal situation across 82% of modern cultures. Please note the term IDEAL. Monogamy is the number one practiced form of marriage around the world. Just because polygamy is an "ideal" situation (thus showing status or wealth generally), it does not mean that either everyone wants to practice it or that everyone can practice it. In examining polygyny: "80% of societies in the world allow men to take more than one wife. In societies where women do the bulk of the productive work — for instance, small-scale horticultural societies where women’s gardens provide the day-to-day staples — marrying several women is a way for men to accumulate more wealth and power for themselves. In societies where men do the bulk of the productive work — many herding societies, for example — additional wives function as a sort of “status symbol”, showing to the rest of the society that a man is wealthy enough — and therefore capable — to support them. Polygyny is often practiced among warlike peoples, in which the number of men killed in battle produces a “surplus” of women who, without polygyny, would be unable to find a mate and therefore unable to support themselves. Interestingly, the necessity of supporting more than one wife in these societies means men have to work very hard, keeping them rather distant from their homes and leaving their sons without significant male role models to emulate. In this situation, boys will, rather than try to become more like their absent fathers, instead seek to become less like their present mothers, which tends to emphasize aggressiveness at the expense of nurturance — and encourages more warlike behavior, reproducing the “surplus” of women from generation to generation," (Cultural Anthropology: The Exploration of Human Diversity, 10/e, Conrad Phillip Kottak, ed).
I know it may be hard for some to seperate the notion of IDEAL versus ACTUALITY, but think of it this way: it is IDEAL to never sin, to make every prayer, to do your five pillars and then die in service to Allah.. but ACTUALITY is that people have to live their lives, sleep in, sin, and die of old age, accidents, or disease and injury. So? And just for you, nluvwithdakhira, I will point out that I fully mean polygamy in my above 82%, not polygyny or polyandry alone.
(Another aside-- earlier, when I said I would never accept polygamy? I meant polygamy too. OH MY GOD, what a concept: I was saying I didn't want any second or third or additional wives for my husband and I wasn't into taking additional husbands myself. Who knew? Amazing. I figured you may have been confused by my vaginal ways, so I thought I would clarify.)
"But it's more than that, you're all just affected by feminism, where only women's rights matter and men must be docile lambs and repress their true nature. Bottom line, men like more than one woman, women like powerful men with resources. How Allah made us. If a man chooses to have more than one wife tho, that's on him."
Ahh, nluv, aren't you just full of knowledge? Let's discuss what feminism is. Feminism, as per the Webster dictionary, is: “the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.” So as you can see, your idea that feminism wishes men to be docile lambs is just plain wrong. It is the movement for equality. Now that also being said, I can say with 100% assurity that none of the muslimahs here are feminists because of the issue of "social equality" in feminism. I? would be a feminist. They? Are not. Being that they have all acknowledged the Islamic belief of the differing roles of men and women, as well as the idea of men having a degree of rights over women; that nixes social equality and thus creates a hitch to their feminism. Perhaps we should teach them, you and I, how to be proper feminists! Well, except that you'd be too busy being strong, and anyway you could catch some of my woman-cooties. Because apparantly, we're all 3-years-old on this blog.
"Sisters just get over it. Women aren't equal to men, men are the maintainers of women. Women need to just stay in their place and keep their mouth shut."
Such strong words! Oh I feel my heart fluttering to the strong man. Or maybe that's just an urge to vomit. Hard to say. Doesn't matter since I should stay in my place and let my husband maintain me. What place would that be exactly again? Because if I have a place, I'd prefer for it to be cute and padded. I prefer clean lines and modern furniture. I don't eat fats and oils, and I love artichokes. Please tell me my place has artichokes! And baby sloths! And sea cucumbers! If I could have a baby sloth and a sea cucumber, my life would be perfect. Can't you imagine? A nice baby sloth in one arm, a sea cucmber in the other hand, 70*F weather and a slight breeze.. a sweater and comfy jeans, and us on a picnic in my place, eating artichokes. It's so beautiful I may cry a single tear, and then lick it off my cheek.
Glad to notice you have thought long and hard about the rights of women as set forth in the Qu'ran. Way to go, following all that religious advice and stuff from Allah inbetween being strong, virile, and maintaining. Multi-tasking, although not specifically mentioned in the Qu'ran, is a good trait in men.
"OrganicMuslimah, are you even married? If you aren't please stop rapping about multiples wives when you don't even have one husband."
Nluv do you have one wife? Multiple wives? I'm glad to see that one's marital status really affects your knowledge about your own feelings: helps you get in touch with yourself on this deeper level. What a pleasant joy it must be, being married to you! Like doing it missionary style on a bed of nails with a sumo wrestler. But unless you have multiple wives (or a husband, you haven't answered my innie or outtie question yet), then I suggest you cease to discuss this topic immediately. You will not be qualified to dispense your magical advice and fairy dust of knowledge. Put it back in the pouch and slowly back away.
"You women are feminists, whether you realize it or not."
Hmmm. Please see the above definition of feminism, then regard their statements of Islamic belief and rhetoric, then revisit this statement again. You may learn something, such as the actual definition of feminism!
OK, so now for the final grades.
Originality: F. I think we've all heard this stuff before. Try to not parrot people and go for the gold! Thinking can be an industrious hobby.
Tact: F. Have you looked into counter-dawah? I feel you may have a forte in this.
Amusement:B+. I thought you had a fairly good moment with the idea that women should stay in their places, but it just didn't "zing" like it should. Unfortunately, your style and tone don't lend to just one good zinger, and we would have to totally rework your piece.
Emotion: D-. Although again, I did sense something in the "mouth shut" and additionally "feminism" comments, I still felt the parroting. You need more "ummph." I would suggest using more personal statments, though stay away from using flat adjective assertions like "I feel" and rather go for more evocotive statements such as "The tension and tingling felt in my every nerve; the wracking of my emotions over the coals of your abhorrent deception; these forced me to blot out the vile statements of your excremential hearts and give you the Truth."
Consistency: C. You begin quite well and with promise, offering your point of view with a bit of knowledge and backing, but then you degenerate into wild assumption and assertion. I would suggest maintaining your chauvanism throughout the entire comment, or attempting to hide it better, one or the other. You need to work on your flow. Transitions and segues are helpful. Take a lesson from "A brother" and try again, this time with a consistent style.
Ahh, well time to go back to my place and secrete or whatever it is us women do.
Julianna:
Woman! I thought we went over this. You sit on the corner and SHUT UP. Because you are a feminist with emotional tendencies and God knows what kind of influence you've had around here.
I command you to the closet now and wait till your husband tells you what to do because you are helpless like that!
And if you're not married, well, well, it's obvious why not!
Sit in that corner...
and
Shut up!
MMMPPPHHH!
MMM MMMM MMMMMMM MM!
Oh, I'm sorry, I was trying to talk through the duct tape.
Wow, if I were married? I would hope I could some day score a good Muslim husband who went to the mosque almost every prayer every single day, and who thought belgian chocolate pasties were as hilarious as I do. I hope he's Arab too. And TRIBAL. And who knows how to make cheese from scratch using a goat skin, farm olives, and grows fields of wheat, hummus, and lentils alternating with tomatoes and cucumbers.
And then? We can clasp our hands together tightly, and spin! Spin with love and freedom! Spin at least 6 inches until we both smack into the closet walls!
Oh well, moderation.
Organic! Will I ever meet such a man? Does he exist? Do you think he would only let me out of the closet to edit his papers?
As salaam alaikum
I would say I am fairly new to the blog world. I must say though that I have learned many things from reading different blogs from men and women and also different polygyny groups:
1.when they start off correcting you about "its polygyny not polygamy" he or she usually goes on to say "polygyny is the man's right, you cant have a problem with what Allaah legislated,...
2. The women who say the above things( and yes they are true) are either second,third,or fourth wives or single and seriously contemplating coming into someone's marriage
3.There are many problems within the ummah caused by polygyny being mispracticed and the Ulema aren't addressing them specifically only whats halal and haraam
Things that I have learned from personal experience and what I see with my own eyes going on within my community:
1. Every single divorce of companions of mine or just sisters I know from the community had in some way shape or form polygyny was a factor( however I am not condemning it I am just stating what I see)
2. The way polygyny practiced in the west especially my community is out of haste, satisfying desires,ego reasons
3.The mispractice of it has created a lack of unity among the sisters in the community( a sister may enter the marriage knowing the first wife may leave but the second wife has no concern for that only for herself)
I agree that Allaah has allowed polygyny and that it can be beneficial and I agree that those are some serious issues affecting the muslims that really need to be looked at. I personally have changed my mind about wanting to practice it for myself and I can see where those two brothers are kind of nervous because if all the sisters feel like this they won't have plural marriage but I think they will live.
Julianna!! You rock!! Loved the quote from Cult. Anth. 101 textbook! Makes me wish I had really read the darn thing, lol.
As for nluvwitdakhira, good thing he (I'm assuming) wasn't born in Tibet before the 1950's, or he would have had to subvert his "manly nature" and share his wife with his brothers.
Now, I better get back to the closet and wait for a man to come and tell me what to do. Hmmm... I wonder if I can find it on my own; maybe I need a man to tell me where it is.
it would have been nice to read the direct, thoughtful, educated things people here have to say WITHOUT all the sarcasm. Sarcasm is just nasty and unnecessary and, in my opinion, undermines the author's position and command of respect...sarcasm futhermore is a product of "emotionality" - it just "sounds" all uppity, and is harsh on the eyes. Let's talk and respond to each other with deep thought about what the other person is saying - because they are sincere in their thoughts and feelings, and have put in the time and effort to try and communicate something important to this audience. There's no need for Offense to Be Taken at every turn of the card - let's be analytical about this discussion. But that requires reflection on the part of the reader; consideration on the part of the reader of the possible present and hopefully helpful truth (either partial or whole) on the part of the writer. The writer can then respond in a state of calm, fully ready to explore the issues, with both old information and new - and possibly change an opinion here or there, in her/him self, or in others. To open our minds and selves a bit to understanding, we have to try and see this discussion from both points of view. Do you see a balance between the two? Truth in both sides? I do.
How, if you are a person that values 'love', can you not be emotional about a topic about being forced to share that love with someone else? I can see nothing but flaws in a directive that says that a woman, if she loves God, should be willing to forsake her own emotions, the emotions that help create tight family bonds and share her partner with up to three other women. There is no reason why God could not have said, 'Let the women learn to be self supportive in case of a man shortage'. No, that ruling came straight from a man as far as I am concerned. God would have had more foresight than that. The only way that polygamy would work is if there is no love involved. What is the point of a family if there is no love? I believe that anyone that cannot understand that has never been in love.
Umm Haleema said "God would have had..."
AstagfirAllah. One thing is to talk about the CHOICES we make in our lives given ALLOWABLE RULES and PARAMETERS and another is saying that God is wrong.
You are not Muslim. Do you also subscribe to the apostate blog, or are you an Arab Christian, or did you pick the name Umm Haleema because you think we are stupid, gullible Muslim women? Which is it.
One thing is to disagree, another is to commit a grave sin in saying God errs.
You guys think you are here to make us "unMuslim" but that's not possible.
First, I apologize for not responding to comments on here for a while.
Second, let's make one thing clear
Polygamy (i.e polygyny, where a man can marry more than one wife, up to four that is) is acceptable in Islam. It's clearly stated in Surat An-Nisaa. I accept it part of my faith but I choose not to practice it in my personal life. If you choose to reject parts of the Quran, then you have a problem with your faith, I advise you to look into it and if you can't accept it, then Islam isn't the religion for you.
Just because someone has an Arabic name don't assume they are Muslim. Everyone on here is entitled to their opinion, as long as they don't try to say something in the name of Islam when it's not correct.
Hasnah: Thank you for your well-thought response. I agree with what you said. And welcome to the blogging world. Please come again :)
Musulmana,
You are mistaken, I did not say that God is wrong. I said that God would not have said that. So, obviously I am NOT Muslim since I am deducting, by using my own resoning, that the Koran must have been written by a man!
Ler's see, why would I have picked the name that I did? Maybe I have a daughter who calls me Ummie and who calls herself Haleema? But I might have to say that you may very possibly be a stupid gullible woman. Not sure since I don't know you.
Why would I care if you become unMuslim? Live as you wish, it doesn't affect me does it? But I must say, you seem extremely insecure to me. Why would you think that just because someone doesn't have the same beliefs as you that they want you to leave your religion? There are billions of people in the world that don't belive as you do. Do you think they all sit around trying to think of ways to get you away from your religion? Get a grip.
Rain: You are the last woman on earth to say such a thing. You closet? Your last story you were tackling moose. I refuse to believe that. You are more of a man than anyone I've met.
There!
All I can say is I really wish Julianna had been one of my college professors. Duct tape and all.
Anon: There is more than one point of view in this discussion, obviously. And when someone comes in and calls the discussion "circus" and "to shut the hell up" I think sarcasm is the best way to cool things off.
But hey! Thanks for your input and may we let the discussion begin. Please start.
(I promise I will refrain from being sarcastic and yelling at my friends to sit in the closet. Promise)
Umm Haleema: I understand your position as a non-Muslim it might be difficult to understand Polygamy and accept it. Because we were both brought up that way. My friend Julianna (funny commenter found above) isn't Muslim and understands polygamy with it's historical context and sometimes many benefits. Although she has determined that Polygamy isn't part of her own faith, she can realize the benefits/or acceptance of others. I don't mean to pick of Julianna, but I am using her as an example of an educated individual that can differentiate between emotion and reality.
Thank you for your input, and feel free to express your feelings and concerns. I really appreciate you.
:) say hi to your bint (daughter), since your little one calls you Ummi ;)
Am: I picture you and Julianna starting your own blog. And I swear you will be the funniest bloggers alive!
DANG! Never expected this when I clicked on the comments link. There's an all out war here. My input on polygamy; to each their own. Every couple is different.
An interesting side-note: here in Saudi Arabia where polygamy is regularly practiced, men outnumber women by some 2 million. The birth rate for males is 54%, and there is a huge number of unmarried men. There are many cultural reasons for the high number of bachloers but, many men seeking to marry an additional wife fail to remember their unmarried brethren. Instead, they only refer to their seemingly singular obligation to relive the country's spinsters from their unmarried misery. I agree with MeshMesh, "If a man wants to marry a second wife in the Middle East, I suggest he use the money instead to help a poor male relative get married. As we know, the reason "3orfi" or secret marriages have increased in numbers in our countries is due to the lack of opportunities and resources for real marriage.
Well yeah, it'd be tough for any woman to accept suddenly one more woman in her husband's life.
But Sharia does says to make an agreement about it before marriage, right?
Next, I've observed among people who hate polygamy in Islam, for them having an extra-marital affair, whether known to wife or not, is Freedom. :O Its rather 'koool' thing.
Saudi Stepford Wife: Thanks for sharing those statistics.
Karim: Shaira doesn't mandate a person to make an agreement, but you could do it to protect yourself.
It's something that pains every woman and it's not something I can live with. I give 100% in my love,relationship, I expect the same,nothing less. sf
SF: Well said habibity. I couldn't have said it better.
assalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakaatuhu.
im new here and ive managed to finally read through all the comments and now i would like to make one insha'Allah. this is just my opinion on things from what ive read or heard so please forgive me if i offend anyone, because this is not my intention, insha'Allah.
first of all i would like to say that i can understand where a lot of you are coming from, but i dont necessarily agree with you. i have seen a very good example of a successful polygynous marriage done in the west, in the correct islamic way, but i have also experienced a bad marriage myself.
like everyone said, everyone is different and some women can handle it, so can some men, but some cant.
the example of a succesful marriage is of my best friend, the lady who first taught me so much about islam and told me to say the shahadah after her when i decided to become muslim. she is herself a convert and a divorcee with 6 children masha'Allah. she got divorced from her ex-husband after finding out that he had been sexually abusing almost all of her children, subhanAllah. she is such a strong woman, masha'Allah. the man she married is an Arab, but not a typical one, who was married to a south africa born muslim sister, who is also very strong, intelligent and kind with 3 kids of her own with her husband. she actually recommended that her husband marry the sister with 6 kids because she knew that he wanted to marry for the sake of Allah to help a sister out if she needed it. so she thought that this sister was the best choice because she had 6 kids and was alone and needed some help. they married almost 3 years ago now, and they are so happy, thay all are. the children now have a father figure, a VERY good father figure one that will never abuse their trust like their father did. and the mother has a very good husband who tries his best to divide time evenly and be just a fair, and i have never heard one complaint out of either of them, and i am one of their close friends. the brother is an imam at the mosque and also has a Daawah centre/bookshop that he owns and runs for non-muslims and reverts, 5 days a week! masha'Allah it is the best example i have ever seen and it is one of the first example i saw of correct islamic polygyny in the West. mostly because the brother knows what he has to do and he does it to the best of his ability as guided very clearly in the qur'an and sunnah, and also because both the wives love the other wife for the Sake of Allah, even though sometimes it might be difficult, but they hang in there to get reward from Allah. they both dont want anything to change. they want for their sister what they want for themselves.
now i know that not all marriages will be like this, but i just thought that i would let you all now that it can happen, i have seen it my self and i wish i could have that same situation...any day!
but i have also experienced a bad marriage myself. dont need to go into details, it was pretty much discussed already in everybody elses comments, marrying a young girl and promising the world but in actually fact all he wanted was sex....anyway. i got out of that situation, not without a fight mind you! alhamdulillah, Allah has given me some more knowledge since then so i can tell people what is the correct way and what is not insha'Allah. i dont claim to know everything, but i do have first hand experience so insha'Allah i can help sisters from not falling into the same trap.
i aslo want to point out the comment that i read that 'polygany isnt halal in the west coz it means breaking the law you are living under'. it is illegal to marry more than wife at the same time in the west...i know that, but who says in Islam that when you marry that you have to have a legallised western marriage? you can just do the nikah because that is all that Allah tells us to do. we dont have to have a western marriage certificate aswell. so that agrument isnt valid that plural marriage in the west isnt halal becoz you are breaking the law, you arent breaking any law when you marry the islamic way only, which is all that is needed in the sight of Allah. men have multiple girlfriends in the west and that isnt illegal, they probably view plural marriage as the same becoz they wont have legal marriage certificates, but to them thay are married under islam. am i making sense?
also, as far as i know, from what i have read and heard from lecturers, that you cant make a marriage contract with any condition that goes against sharee'ah. for example, can a man put in the marriage contract that he doesnt have to maintain his wife in any way whatso ever and if he is made to then the marriage is anulled? no he cant do that, because he HAS to maintain and support his wife and family, the woman doesnt have to do that ever, it is the mans responsibility and it is in the Qur'an. so (as far as i know, sorry if im wrong) a woman cant put in the marriage contract that the man cant remarry, because that is his right that Allah has given him, when needed and if done in the right islamic way. if you were an unmarried sister, maybe with children, and you wanted to marry a good religous brother, but he has a wife already, but he is willing to marry you anyway and support you the correct islamic way, but his wife is threatening with divorce, how do you think that would make you feel? alot of sisters where i live, maybe not where you live, get divorced with kids and there arent many other brothers (good brothers i mean, that are willing to marry for the Sake of Allah to help her with her kids etc) for her to choose from that are single. they are already married, and they have to be willing to share if they want a good brother, otherwise they marry a brother that isnt so good, or dont marry at all coz not many men want to marry a single mother.
also saying that anything that Allah has made permissable is wrong or not fair or that it "sucks" is an act of Kufr. im NOT saying that any of you are now a kaffir, but i am just saying that to say those thigns is wrong. but i still understand what you mean when you say it sucks, it sucks when men ( and sometimes women as in my last marriage) abuse polygany and use for their own personal and usually disgusting desires.
i would like to refer a book to you all, i havent read it yet, but i know alot of people who have icluding my mother who says it helped alot in dealing with the difficualt parts of polygany, because there ARE difficult aspects, im not saying it should be easy peesy and that you should just shut your mouth and live in the closet. im not saying that at all. all im saying is that it is a part of islam, and that it can be very beautiful when done correctly, and you should think about putting yourself in a single mothers shoes who wants a good religious husband who will help her and look after her kids but then finds out that he is married already and the first wife wont let him marry ( most the time she will leave if he even brings up the topic at all)....ok the book is
'From Monogamy to Polygyny: A way through' by Umm AbdurRahman Hirschfelder and Umm Yasmeen Rahmaan. published by Darussalam.
i would like to also remind my sisters that of course it will be hard to accept, jealousy is a part of a womans nature, Allah made it like that and the prophet (saw) acknowledged it with his wives because they too were jealous, but he also says that if a women is patient in dealing with her jelousy and trying hard to suppress it, it is the same reward as man who is trying hard to suppress his fear of going into Jihad to fight for the Sake of Allah. isnt that beautiful? we haev to remember sisters, and brothers, that this like if short, almost nothing in comparison to the next life, this life is all about tests and learning lessons, we should be patient and careful with what we say.
im sorry its such a long comment, and please forgive me if i have said anything wrong, i didnt want to offend or hurt anyones feelings, i only wanted to state my opinion. May Allah make it easy for ALL of us to do what is correct, and remember, on the day of Judgement, we wont care about any body in this life, we will run away from our children, from our brothers and sisters, our parents, our HUSBANDS AND WIVES, we wont care about anyone but ourselves, SubhanAllah. so please everyone, just make Du'a that Allah can make us please Him only and to what is correct for His sake. please forgive for saying anything wrong and i pray that we can all be in Jannah together insha'Allah.
assalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakaatuhu
sorry i just wanted to correct a speeling mistake in the second last paragraph, i meant to type 'this life is short'
jazak Allahu khayran.
Something often not considered, polygamy is a woman's right! Consider all of the women out there who have "passed their prime", or have traits that their society considers not desirable. Because they were unable to attract single, Prince Charming, or lost him (or maybe their first marriage was to the frog who never changed) are they to be condemned to spinsterhood? What about our sisters who are victims of poverty, widows with children, for them polygamy also SUCKS! Saying it sucks is to turn a deaf ear to others needs, not men, but women. No women in her prime, physically attractive, means of support, would choose polygamy. That goes without saying. I say no, these women have a right, and we men have a responsibility to see to it that every muslimah who wants a family life should have it. Look at the life of our Prophet (PBUH), this is what it is all about.
not all women think polygyny sucks. I dont think it does, and i would be happy to go willingly into such a reltionship, only of course if the people involved are doing it all correctly. I am a young, divorced, single mother with one son, if i found a good practicing Muslim brother, who was willing to marry me, and i him, and he was already married, i would still want to marry him, of course i would want his first wife to be happy with the situation too. there are just not enough brothers in the world today (maybe there are, not where i live anyway) and all the good ones are usually already married, so women have to choose, if they want a good brother for marriage, then they have to be willing to share, and i am one who would be willing to share insha'Allah. of course if i could marry someone who wasnt married, and who was a good practicing brother, then of course i would be happier with that, but Allah has made Polygyny halal, a blessing for both men and women, i think it can be a very good and beautifl experience if done correctly, and hope that it will start to be practiced more correctly in the future, insha'Allah.
I have to respond. I admire many men and women who wrote here, gives me hope about our honesty and care for one another.
Two things I will say, first to Ummu Adam, yes some things sound wonderful etc etc, but what about when this women knows that he is sharing a bed with someone else....? To me I am trying for months to imagine a women who could mentally bare that without having consequences to her Iman, I just can't picture it. I can't.
And to Anonymous, I am soooo sick of that ridiculous argument about widows and divorcees.... whooooo says that a divorceee or a widow can't marry someone who is not married, does her divorce or death of first husband make her "damaged goods". That is a disgusting statement, really. Nothing to do with Islam to view a divorced women that way or a widow.
I think the point brought up is very valid, that in todays society poligamy is ridiculous. We can not talk about more women than men when we do not really know the counts...who are you counting, millions of gay women and men, or those who are not muslim and probably never will be? That is a faaaalse argument. To me the only argument that poligamy is ALLOWED not a requirement but ALLOWED in certain cases is that is says so in the Koran. And there are women who live with a men and they know he goes out and cheats and they are not as bothered as maybe another woman, there yes probably better to have poligamy. But is that woman really in her best state, is her Iman ever going to be able to develop in such a sitaution? I don't know. I am puzzled by this. I pray to Allah to save me and all other sisters here who think that way from that kind of challenge. Amin.
Umm Aadam, your post was written very idealistically. Are you a revert to Islam? A lot of times, women will revert to Islam in dire states and read the biographies of the sahabiyaat and think that polygamy is their magic solution. It was hard for ummahat fil Islam (raa), they were sad some days, became jealous and even lost their tempers with the Messenger (saaws). They stuck through not for the sake of having a man, but for the sake of attaining jannah as a guarantee.
Practicing polygamay with the Muslims, men and women, is not gurantee of jannah today. That isn't to say that exceptional cases like the one you mentioned where all parties are getting their needs met don't exit. They do, but they are not the norm.
The norm, not only in the west, but in all of the Muslim world, is that polygamy causes families pain, breaks in trust and in a number cases worldwide for the whole family to break up. If we as Muslim don't face the truth about polygamy then things are bound to stay in same, miserable way that it is.
Another thing is that there are plenty of good practicing single Muslim men all around the world; Malaysia, Indonesia, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Somalia, Egypt, ect. If the pickings for brothers in your area are slim, don't settle for less or shove yourself onto a married Muslim man whose family isn't ready for it. Trust in Allah and seek brothers from outside of your community.
Regarding the contract, Umar ibn al Khattab (ra) and Ibn Qudaama among others ruled that is indeed permissible for women to specify in their contract that their husbands not take a wife until after they have divorced them first. Alhamdulilah, Allah has not made compulsion necessary. No man has the right to force his wife to accept polygamy.
I always wondered why reverts seemed more forward accepting polygyny. Having only being intimate with my husband, the idea of him sharing that part of himself with someone else is not acceptable. He can choose it, of course, but I won't be apart of it inshallah.
Maybe those sisters and brothers who have had different intimate partners have an advantage over those of us who have not in that they may not place as much value/emotions on intimacy as we do so they have an easier time adjusting to it.
As-salamualaikum Sister,
I would in no way accept anything like this from my future husband, and I hope inshAllah that God will protect us from some sick men. Yes, they are sick, because they justify their actions accodring to the story of how the Prophet married more than one wife. HOWEVER, the prophet's (pbuh) story is more than that. Because those women who the prophet married would have been left to destitution from wars, or be left on the streets for prostitution, his Islamic justification for polygamy is different. Ordinary men justify polygamy in any way, like " I'm not satisfied with my wife" story. And even an Imam said that was haram, for it inflicts harm on people, rather than good. Good were the prophet's intentions, not the slobs of this day and era who seek new and younger wives for pleasure.
We as muslims must resist such practice, when Islam is being tainted with actions by superficial men who seem to pick and choose what they like from the religion.
I know where you're coming from. What people don't understand, are the circumstances under which polygamy is allowed. First and foremost God says to treat every single one of your wives equally, and if this is not possible then polygamy is not allowed. Now what man can treat each of his wives the same way? Not possible, unless he was perfect like the prophet ( pbuh).
I sound like I'm building up evidence for justifyng polygamy for the prophet (pbuh), but not for ordinary men. Which is true.
Salam sister. Good blogs. I'm not a blogger, so I have to remain anonymous.
Salam
Sabbasi
Oh and one more. You people are also disgracing the Prophet (saw) if you accept polygamy as a general practice in Islam. It is not. The prophet( pbuh) only married more than one wife to save those women from living on the streets as prostitutes and as poor women. That's why God allowed it.
Speak out people.
And I am a good practicing muslim. But with religion, comes reason. That is why God has also talked so much about science ( and research and observation proves the Quran to be true). Use your brain and live up to God's expectations--not your own desires and whims.
Peace
Oh and the last two comments were from a new anonymous, Not the Anyonymous above, who I disagree with in MANY ways ( especially the old womanhood and spinsterhood issue). Many women (unless they lived in Africa where several co-wives would seem desirable in helping with agricultural work) would think that polygamy is their right. And if they do, I think they are characterless ( I don't know ONE person who thinks that. What kind of people do you hang with?). Stop Justifying it for the reasoning of how old women would be left as "SPINSTERS." I think there needs to be more substance than that. Something solid. Please.
""Getting a new wife isn't like buying a car or getting a new suit. It's not a decision that affects him alone, but one that affects everyone around him.""
Again people justifying it. Really, go back to Saudi, if you are not happy with monogamy. God never said to do it. He only ALLOWED IT under circumstances not suitable for a human being. I also thing God is TESTING us to see what we choose to practice and what we don't.
Reason it out.
you got to be kidding...!! I didn't comment here? WOW! And I know I read this before.....
Well....I'm just gonna say that Organic has it right on the ball. And she said it sooooo fine!
I agree...it is cheating when the wife doesnt know about it or agree! Your post inspired me to write about polygamy. :)
Assalaamu'alaykum wr.wb., hi sweety, your blog getting better and better. The appearance. But whats in it, Masha Allaah. You have good writing skills! Keep the good work. Afwan jiddan for not being around. I miss you. I'd like to fix my blog but yes, can't do much of it :D Maybe one day. I love and miss you, habibity :) *hugs* Ah, one more thing, I agree for the expression that you put in writing about poligyny. Can't say much. Allaah gives the permission but the men should use it wisely. It is a pain to let your man to be at your another half. But I always remember, whatever will be will be. If the man decided to have more wives but Allaah doesn't grant it, no matter what he tried, it won't be happened. Vice versa. Allaah Ar-Rahmaan Ar-Rahiim. Allaah won't give burden which you can't take it. Fi amanillaah. Lots of love for you :)
If men want to do it, they need to
#1 find a wife that will accept that
#2 Make sure they can afford to provide a decent living at the same level for all wives
#3 Make sure they have the patience and strength of character that is needed in this situation.
#4. Fear Allah and be fair.
As Salaamu Alaikum All;
This subject is always so fraught with emotions running high. But with understandable reason, I suppose.I am going to make a comment which I think may anger some, but it is given with an eye toward balancing what people think and feel.
We've all read the previous comments on how some couldn't take it, it feels like cheating, it has to be done right, it's beautiful, it's horrible, etc. It can be all of those things. But one aspect left out of the picture, and I say this as a Muslim woman, is that the sister is not the only one who may have difficulty with it.
Most men go into polygyny with their eyes shut, or at least half closed. They see that other brothers are doing it, it's halal, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah. But what they fail to see until they're in the thick of the situation is that they often do not get what they thought they wanted. They do not understand that it is not only the woman who gets short-changed on time. THE BROTHER NOW HAS VERY, VERY LITTLE TIME TO HIMSELF. (Yeah, I know, "boo-hoo").
Think about it: with just one wife to interact with, he might have had more time to go to the masjid or sit with a friend or just relax outside of the house. Now, with a second wife, that "free time" is now gone. He gets situated at one home and before he can even get too comfortable, he has to head out to the other. It's a never-ending run back and forth between places. He's constantly schlepping his stuff back and forth. He has chained himself to a lifestyle in which stress is inherent.
I'm saying this because the woman is not the only one under stress. He has to figure out how to deal with another wife's habits, ways, emotions, etc. and keep it together enough to be able to switch back to deal with the other. It is not all "brother gets to have his cake and eat it, too." He even may have a hard time himself in dealing with the intimacy with more than one woman. A man may not realize his emotional attachment to a wife until he has to be intimate with a "stranger". You think they are all inconsiderate and self-centered and hedonistic? Sometimes this situation forces him to deal with emotions he may not have ever had cause to face. Then he thinks "What have I gotten myself into? Can I, HOW can I deal with this?"
What it boils down to is that polygyny is an exceptional style of marriage that takes exceptional people with exceptional iman. If one enters into it, whether husband, wife , or prospective wife, one has to deal with the realities, limitiations and desires of his/her own heart, so be true to that. Allah already knows it.
Perfect umm Attiyah. If you read any of the polygamy bloggers, you will see how stressed the husbands are :)
Running around back and forth. Hectic life. Sucks for them :D
Great comment. Thank you!
(Found you through ummadam!)
You don't accept polygamy and you are a muslim? Lost your mind? Polygamy is the only reason why men want to be muslim. But this is a sick mentality, because there are not ENOUGH women out there to satisfy all men on the world. The population ratio should be 1 men - 4 women. Guess what? We don't have that much women on earth, this means unhappy men staying out in the cold without a woman at his house :) Can you understand that? Stop reading Quran, where do you think you will arrive? Everywhere will be full of wankers and frustrated men. This is a religion that will lead people into frustration and exploitation. You will be exploited by MEN, do you understand that?
No where in the Quran it says you HAVE to marry 4. It says you may marry up to four under certain conditions. The main condition is being fair.
I am sorry for your sarcastic tone.
Anonymous (I'm not sure which one, since there seem to be 2 of you using the same name:
You do not agree with or like this aspect of Islam, that is obvious. No one is pushing it on you. If you do not like Islam in general, again, no one is pushing it on you. Any religion, if it is distorted by people for their own reasons, can exploit. ANY ideology/philosphy, be it religious or secular, can be used to exploit if it is misunderstood or miscommunicated
incorrectly. Yours included.
UmmAttiya I do respect your comments but in my opinion you painted a picture of men which is not the reality. You can ask almost any man and they will tell you that they don't attach all those emotions to sex as we do. They can easily have sex with one woman and be in love with another. Yes its true that he may have less time to himself but he also has two or more women competing to make him happy I think he will be comfortable no matter where he is at. Just my two cents.
if you like islam that much, why don't you live in egypt? do you think you can ever get there and continue your life as an independent personality without having a husband? do you think you'll have the right to walk on the street and show off your fancy bags and post your blogs freely on internet? IRAN has just banned access to google. do you know what it means? you'll be locked up in your house by your husband and live with your 2 or 3 other wives and wait for him till he comes from work. You won't be able to go out shopping alone or even drive? It's easy for you to post fancy things about ramadan and islam while you live in a developed western country.
Anon:
Since you have pleaded ignorance with your uneducated and ignorant comment let me try to educate you on a few things.
First, what is the relationship between Egypt and Islam? Egypt is an Arab country with a predominantly large Muslim population of about 90%. And since we all know, Islam doesn't mean Muslims, we can easily conclude that Egypt doesn't equal Islam. However, you might find the legal system in Egypt interesting because Egypt isn't an Islamic country governed by Shoyookh ( i.e Pure Islamic state, theocracy). Egypt's legal system is a cocktail between Islamic law and Napoleonic code which makes it easy to conclude again, Egypt doesn't equal Islam ( https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/eg.html) Which also means, if the Egyptian government (dictatorship) chooses to kill people for practicing their right of freedom of speech and religion then it's because the government has issues, NOT ISLAM. So again, in simple terms for simple minds: EGYPT DOESN'T IN ANY WAY REPRESENT ISLAM.
So, this takes us back to your question that was directed to me (The Egyptian Muslim living in a developed country practicing Islam). Your questions states, "if you like islam that much, why don't you live in egypt?" As you can see, I have proven above that your question is invalid because Islam and Egypt have nothing in common except with the few followers of Islam who live in Egypt and are ruled by a dictator. Thus we might conclude, once again, that your argument has no basis and you will need to resubmit your question to me, if you must. (Little advice: check your facts before you question, sometimes it shows ignorance and people might make fun of you).
Second, you speak of my living in conditions IF I chose to return to Egypt, "you think you can ever get there and continue your life as an independent personality without having a husband? do you think you'll have the right to walk on the street and show off your fancy bags and post your blogs freely on internet?" Here go the ignorant bells again. What you note right here is a problem with the social system in Egypt. But before I get into that and simplfy it for you, I must express my great concern. Are the Turks ( i.e. YOU) so ignorant of life in Egypt in the 21st century? Yes, I can walk alone down the beautiful streets of Egypt wearing my very fancy bags. As a matter of fact, I can even attend University wearing my headscarf and get hired with no problem. I am not banned from government institutes. I do have that much freedom that many Turkish women LACK. But hey, since we are on the topic, let's talk about Egypt's social system. Egypt is a patriarchal society which means (in case you didn't know)" A family, community, or society based on this system or governed by men" (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/patriarchy) So yes, it would be very difficult to live without a man, in a society that is made for men and for their pleasure. That is why I am grateful I am an American Muslim who can practice their freedom of speech and religion, whenever and however.
Third, here comes some more signs of ignorance. What does Iran have to do with Egypt? You can go question Iran for what they are doing. I am not Iranian and I don't condone their oppression and I don't think it's part of Islam.
Fourth, you said "It's easy for you to post fancy things about ramadan and islam while you live in a developed western country."
I agree and thank God I am an American :)
Organic-Muslimah; As another sister once said "Ring the bell cause school's in session!"
I think that Anonymous misses the point totally. The VAST MAJORITY of Muslims living here do so and like it in part because the Constitution allows for that freedom to wear what you want, be it khimar, yarmulke, turban or nothing; it allows for the freedom of saying what you want (with the exception of yelling Fire! in a crowded place), even if the majority of folks don't agree, or say nothing. It allows us and pretty much anybody else who is here legally, freedoms that unarguably, we might not have in a different country (although this seems to be fast becoming "a limited time offer, certain restriction do apply, supplies limited and see fine print for further details.")
Yeah, Muslims who like living here, LIKE LIVING HERE because by and large they are NOT PREVENTED from living Islam. Sure, they might get harrassed, maybe some idiot defaces a masjid every now and then, maybe a hijabi or niqabi sister gets passed over for a promotion, or a brother's employers make it difficult for him to make jumuah on Fridays, but we deal with those things, in and out of the courts, because even that option is available. Some like the challenge of and want to gain the rewards of telling people HERE about Islam and perhaps opening their eyes and being a living, TRUE example of what Islam IS, not what the media portrays it to be. So maybe not all wanna go elsewhere. Those who DO wanna live in an Islamic country, roll out when they are able, and they love living THERE (be it Saudi, Egypt, Yemen, Indonesia, Kuwait, etc.) because of the environments and opportunities to further their Islam THERE that do not exist here!
Nobody's telling Anonymous that he/she has to leave if he/she doesn't like us being here. He/she's as free to be here AS WE ARE. Deal with it. We do.
Hasnah: I respect your opinion, but disagree with you that I painted a picture of men that is not a reality. I LIVED this reality. And the brother was not in any way a "momma's boy", or anything like that. And I don't think my experience is outside the norm. Just because a man is socialized to be this strong, stoic, non-emotion-showing, person, does not mean that he does not have those emotions. Unfortunately men are encouraged directly and subliminally to suppress them. I also think, and this is my two cents, that some of us, me too at times, tend to think of all men, even Muslims, as being like we might have known them to be before we were Muslims. I've certainly seen examples of men who are capable of dealing with one woman for sex and another for "love", but I have seen with my own eyes women who do that same thing. I think men DO attach as much emotion to sex, but they are d------ sure not going to show it, either to the woman, or one of his boys, for fear of being thought of as "soft", "sensitive", etc., all those things that are "supposed" to be exclusively in the realm of womanhood. I think its been so deeply entrenched in the culture of men to deny the connection between emotions and sex, that it does become seemingly easier for them to switch it on and off. They'd just about rather die than admit to them or be exposed when the facade cracks.
Anonymous; Again, please obtain facts when you speak so firmly. Yes, Iran has banned Google, and its truly a shame, but that has nothing to do with going out of the house.
1.Women in Iran are free to leave their homes.
2. Women in Iran can go shopping on their own and drive.
3.THE ONLY Islamic country to ban women from driving is Saudi Arabia.
4. The vast majority of Muslim women living in polygynous marriages have their own separate homes. But yes, in poorer countries, some wives do live communally in one home with their husband. The same way that SOME women in the FLDS church (not to be confused with the more mainstream Community of Christ Church or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints)in the rich USA live communally with MORE THEN 4 other wives in one home.
so keep on paying your taxes to US government which is going to bomb your muslim BROTHERS and SISTERS this winter again while they celebrate ramadan like you, as they've been doing since 2002. am i clear enough? i'm an atheist and support US government.
so it's possible for an iranian woman to walk on the street without wearing that scarf and get away with that without being punished? are you kidding?
you say you can live your religion in USA. can you get out of your office and go to CUMA whole afternoon long? which company or government institution accepts this? can you build a HUGE cami with tall minares on wall street as they do build enormous cathedrals.
everyone knows that you are after some kinda cihad in kafir countries. so stop trying to hide yourself from modern western people.
some secular turkish guy.
(we're not giving away our homeland to some barbarian arabic culture)
Anonymous/Some Secular Turkish Guy:
Yes, I'll keep paying taxes as long as I live here because I don't want to be prosecuted for evasion of taxes and go to jail and have my freedoms to go outside, etc., taken away. No, I don't like what my taxes pay for, and there are most likely more things of which both of us are probably unaware, that our taxes pay for and that we'd both not be too happy about.
Yes, some Iranian woman do not wear hijab and get away with not being punished. It all depends on what part of town she's in.
I work for the U.S. Government (if that ain't a hoot!). And if making jumuah prayer was wajib for me, but it's not, they would indeed let me, HAVE TO LET ME, BY THE VERY NATURE OF THE CONSTITUTION, do so. (Jumuah doesn't take the whole afternoon, but if I had to go, I'd make up the extra time and stay a little later at work.)
Would love to have that crazy-big, massive masjid on Wall Street, but the other folks got there first and built their places of worship, so there's no more room. Mine's over on 93rd on the East Side. Nice place. Takes up the whole block.
I've no intent or need of starting jihad here in the "good" ol' USA. Don't lump me in with the crazies. I'm a "modern western person"; born here, raised here, as were my parents, grandparents, great grands, aunts, uncles, and cousins. USA born and bred. My jihad is the first jihad, and that's the struggle of overcoming the weaknesses in my soul. Maybe you should struggle for YOUR homeland, if you don't like the way things are going. Your choice, your country, your opinion.
As much as you may not respect my choice to live a non-secular life, I'll still respect you and your choice to live a secular one.
Islam taught me that.
(Seems like this thread's subject has been hijacked, so see ya'll later.)
Advice to all: Ignore the wacko trolls.
Advice to all Muslims: Talk to polygyny survivors before you get all into the theory about how it can/should/does work.
I have yet to meet a man who desires polygyny for anything except hi sown nafs. One way or another, that's all it is-- "I can attract/satisfy/control/recieve compliments from /have progeny bys/et up house with/support/be entertained by ... (fill in the blank) more than one woman. What a Big Man, I am... What a GOOD MusLIM, I am..."
It's all ego.
Salaam Alaikum,
PM
OH Please! Some people say Polygamy can be helpful to women in some situations! NEVER! Not unless both women hate the husband they have.
How can it be beneficial? Someone on here says that it can benefit if there are more women then men, so as not to cause jealousy, the man takes on more wives so everyone can have someone. What do you think it causes when the man takes another woman in addition to the wife he has? The first wife is hurt the deepest! So her feelings should be cast aside and caused to suffer deep hurt and jealousy just so another woman without a husband does not have to suffer? What a terrible mind set that is! Men are no more polygamous by nature then women are! A lot of women will not admit that the thought of another man after being in a relationship for a while can be exciting. Especially when a man is eyeing other women or does take another woman on. It makes the woman feel unloved, not special, the love they had is cheapened, she then finds herself thinking of another man. One who will find her special, who has only eyes for her. She will find herself deeply resenting her husband and not loving him as much anymore. These feelings at times will be replaced with her loving her husband more although only temporarily. It is human nature to cling more closely to something when it tries to leave us behind.
Women will not admit this because society will call them a whore and the man a hero. They are afraid of the consequences. Not all men want more than one woman and not all women want more than one man. But it is human nature to crave different sex. It has nothing to do with love. When a human is having orgasms and has a healthy hormonal level then love making is not always on their mind. Just getting off is on their minds. This can make them crave new experiences all they while still loving their spouse. The person then thinks to themselves that they are not monogamous by nature because they are craving sex with others. This is not true. It is a result of sinful nature that must be overcome as to avoid hurrting ones spouse. Most women know this is true themselves as long as they are experiencing orgasm. Orgasm causes a woman to crave more and more sex and she soon finds that she has a nature much like we accuse men of having.
This is the truth for every woman I know. They just do not admit it because society would look down upon them.
Most people are monogamous by nature. Test it yourself. Picture yourself with a woman/man that you really love. This person is so special to you. You are so in love with them and think of them night and day. Now picture this person being allowed to legally marry another and taking that option.
What do you feel? If you feel betrayal and hurt and anger. Then that proves you are a monogamous person by nature. Do not let our fallen human nature that craves sex cause you to be misguided into thinking you are polygamous by nature.
Love is a choice. And even after much time with a person and the freshness of love is replaced with respect and friendship the person will still be hurt by you turning to another.
If women would be jealous because you have a husband and they do not.Well that is their problem. You should not have to be hurt and made jealous and give up your man just to calm another woman's jealousy and wants. She is coveting and evil in her heart and can just wait until the right person comes along. It is better then taking another woman's man and making him her own.
We all know in our hearts this is wrong because we would not want it done to us. Instead of thinking for ourselves we allow society to think for us.
How ridiculous we are as a human race at times!
BTW Yes I know this is a long rant and full of typo's but this is something that really angers me and I have not taken time to allow for grammar.
Thanks Anonymous for your comment. As Muslims, we must believe in the halal-ness of polygamy, but we don't have to accept it for ourselves. It's simple as that. It does work for some and it doesn't for some. That's just life.
Salaam Alaykum all,
Another perspective: as an unmarried woman (omg, a spinster!), I personally would rather remain single than be in a polygamous marriage. So for me, the whole argument that it is a benefit b/c it gives women the opportunity to be married rather than remain single falls on unimpressed ears. That said, I recognize that I have the option of remaining single as a woman with a PhD, salary, and set of acquired life skills that enable me to be unmarried, self-supporting, and content. If I were a woman without education, in a society where women are less able to be self-supporting, and there was a shortage of marriagable men, then I suppose I would have to accept polygynous marriage. Indeed, I may have been socialized into accepting it as a norm, rather than the exception (which it is in the US, where I live), and in that context may actively desire polygynous marriage. But, I don't live in such a society, I am highly educated, and I have the option/privilege of remaining single. All of that said, I would ultimately prefer monogamous marriage, but of course, whether or not that happens is up to Allah, and it is on his schedule, not mine.
for men Having 2nd wife in many cases it is must . women do not understand the manly needs. some women are too busy with own life , busy with kids , man will be given 2nd line in her life.
so give men a break if he gets married to 2nd wife she can do 1. stay and be happy even if she faick it. 2. get a devorce and let the man live happy with his new wife and new life.
Women alwyas want to own the man , we men accept it but to a limit.
MEN Go a head get your 2nd wife and be happy with it.
your 1st will never ever make u as happy .
GOOOOD luck to men and also women
brdbrd:
You either are very young or very ignorant. A woman that has children does so in PARTNERSHIP with her husband. If he is to immature or selfish to understand how demanding it is to be a wife and mother, then the woman is better off NOT being married to such an idiot. Why stick with a LOSER and "faick" being happy so Mr-I-Think-With-My-Little-Head can get some?
Grow up, come into the 21st century and learn how to relate to women.
polygamy allowed in islam coz it has many benefits and also is so restrained that husband should be fair to his wives and if he could not and he won't of course so it is better to have one.
what if u love ur husband so much and u could not,Allah forbids,have kids?
In Christianity, which was written by the prophets for which the books are named. There are clay tabs and scrolls to prove the id of the bible. Anyway... There is only ONE WIFE and ONE HUSBAND until death unless one cheats on the other. Cheating is Punishable by death and the person cheated on, woman or man has every right to divorce and NO ONE can stand in there way because God gives them the right because they Cheater lied to him too when he/she made their vows in marriage. Any man or woman who marries one who is already married or seperated for any other reason than cheating, knowingly causes the person they marry to do ADULTERY! And they will burn in hell! In the beginning god made Adam and Eve in the garden. Not Adam and Eve and Hoda and Fatia and etc... Read the bible for yourself and research its origins it is not what you have been told. You can be free if you want to... and your daughter and her daughter and her daughter....etc. Don't accept inequality,hell, abuse...God even commands husbands to treat their wives as their own flesh, to cherish her! Wives are supposed to respect their husbands. If both do this, there is balance which is what he intended from the very first man and the first woman(only one) that he made for him. Come on Ladies!
I just want to add my view after reading all of the ones previously posted concerning polygyny. The Quran states the rules about polygyny very clearly as well as the punishments of using it incorrectly. However the person(s)that hand our these marrage certificates should use the teachings of the Quran to make sure that there is a proper reason for it and that if the man is already married that the first wife knows about it first. This will assure that the regulations are used in the proper way, and no one gets hurt, the wife(s) and most inportantly the children. In conclusion.. I hold the giver's of the certificates responsible for all the pain and suffering.
Assalamualaikum.
This is an almost-two-years entry, so I'm not sure whether you guys still continue this arguments or not cuz there are no dates anywhere to be seen. BUT, I still want to say something, Organic.
It's amazing how you females were able to stand your ground and make your points. I am super proud of you guys!
What I want to say is that, have you ever think of what it is like to be the children in these situations?
Have you ever think about how will the children feel when something like this happens?
I am one of the children. I dont know the reason my dad married a second wife but he's never been unfair to us ALL, he treats both families well, and we live like a big happy family. Despite all this, I am still hurt. Yes, I'm just the child, not the wife, but I am hurt too. My dad was the last person in the universe that I thought would marry a second wife or in other words, be 'disloyal' to my mum (that was how I see polygyny when my dad married another women) so when he did, I simply lost my trust in men. I see all men are the same as my dad, even though in reality that's not true.
Yes, I'm still a teenager, but I have the right to FEEL, right?
All I'm saying is, if you have children (I have 5 more siblings), particularly teenage or adult children, please listen to what they have to say too. We are humans with feelings too, no matter how young you think we are. We love our dad, we love our mum, we love the family that we have. When you want to make an 'addition' to the family, you need to ask for not only your wife's opinion, but also your children's opinions.
That's all I want to say.
Organic, thank you for saying what I've always wanted to say. =)
Wassalam.
Wealykum as'salaam Hajjar!
The post is old but we still get comments occasionally. As a matter of fact, if you ever read my comments on the many polygamy bloggers I read, my first concern is the children. I tell the women, if are willing to hurt yourself, please don't hurt your children. I've never heard of a child from a polygamous family who wants the same thing for themselves in the future.
There is a lot of pain that comes with polygamy. When the sahabah practiced it, it was completely different. Those were the days they had Taqwa and truly feared Allah.
Wow! The coments are longer the post.
You have the right to put in your marriage contract that your husband will not take a second wife.
The best way to confront your fear is to find Muslim lawyers who practice family law where you live, and study in depth exactly what can be put into a marriage contract and how it can be enforced, or how breaking the contract is dealt with.
You need not fear polygamy because you can forbid it, NOT for the ummah, but for YOUR personal life.
to the anonymous above me, NO MAN OR WOMAN can change that which Allaah has made permissable and therefore the woman can not make something impermissable for her husband that Allaah made permissable.
so sisters, lets worry about our relationship with Allaah, and lets fear him the best way we can, and let the men fear Him as they should as well, and if you are oppressed then Allaah has given you an alternative and if you are not oppressed then FEAR ALLAAH. WE HEAR AND WE OBEY.
TO ANONYMOUS @ 5:18PM who said:
Maybe those sisters and brothers who have had different intimate partners have an advantage over those of us who have not in that they may not place as much value/emotions on intimacy as we do so they have an easier time adjusting to it.
I am hoping you did not realise that you just insulted the converts or even all westeners. The reason converts seem to be accepting more of polygamy is because they are genearlly more practicing than the cultural muslims and they try to follow everything by the book for fear of disbelief. Not all westerners have had multiple sex partners and therefore have become "numb" and even if they did have partners before, sharing your husband is still very different as you are having to share the man you love regardless how many people you have been with before (with one at a time).
It is so common for people to assume these lack of moral values for the Westeners and no wonder people view you as arrogant when it comes to morality.
oh - I wanted to add to my comment above:
If brothers have sooo much time on their hands they think they can handle another wife, a whole 'nother family (and maybe some new babies) -- wouldn't it be better for them & their families if he spent that time in salah, dhikr, going to the masjid, itikahf during Ramadan? etc etc.
Most westerners these days - unless they are independently wealthy - are so caught up in working, maybe taking courses (not to mention taking kids to soccer/swim/karate or whatever activities) that they barely have time to make their 5 daily prayers.
To spread themselves even thinner can only affect their emaan negatively... which of course affects the whole family, esp with the husband/father being THE role model as head of the household.
Do we really expect our kids to be deen-focused and setting time aside for worship when they see their father (or any of us parents for that matter) barely spending 5 minutes 5 times a day in worship?
If brothers have so much time on their hands, wouldn't it be better to spend extra time in dhikr, dua, reading ahadeeth etc so the kids emulate that?
or out making Dawah by feeding the homeless, volunteering at a charity etc.
(oops - guess my additional comment posted before my first one...)
As salamu alaykum
Oh, Organic Muslimah, what a delight to read your post here! SubhanAllah, you said it! :)
Yes, we all agree that Islam *allows* (NOT mandates) polygyny; but unfortunately too many Muslims (married brothers, or 2nd-3rd-4th wives) do not want to consider the untold harms caused by polygyny when it is done without the CONSENT of all parties. Harm not just to the First Wife, but also to the CHILDREN.
Just because something is deemed Halal (and that is, only if polygyny is handled properly following Islamic requirements), doesn't mean it is smart, advisable, beneficial etc.
To use an example that is not controversial: it would be completely permissible ("halal") for my husband and I to sell our home & business, and decide to buy a goat farm in Afghanistan. Permissible? yes! Wise? absolutely not (given we have relatives in need, we will have to save for our kids' college tuition etc)
What I find really tragic is the number of sisters just in my small city alone who have been severely harmed when their husbands took a second wife. All of them were planned in secret, with the wives finding out just hours before (or even minutes after) the wedding took place nearby.
All but two ended with divorce (and at least two had BOTH wives divorcing the husband!), some cases with now-divorced husband or wife leaving the community - meaning the children are now being raised living away from one parent. In all instances, the brothers caused much fitnah by treating the first wive very badly. And in the case of the 2nd wife divorcing the brother, he is now father to a child being raised without him around.
The wives of the two not yet divorced are extremely unhappy, very hurt by their husband's actions. They don't divorce them (yet) because they are trying so hard to please Allah (swt) by not being jealous, trying to rise above the pain etc. MashAllah.
Some commenters have made valid points that the brothers seeking an additional wife (WITHOUT their present wife's approval) are ignoring the very real needs of their present marriage AND, more importantly, of the children. How many brothers can honestly say they spend enough quality time with their children now? (let alone with their wives).
Wouldn't those brothers be better off spending that "extra" time they seem to think they have helping their children learn Islam, reading stories of the Sahaba to them, teaching them Quran, having informative discussions on various aspects of Islam? (to give a few examples)
With all that "extra" money these brothers have (surely these brothers really do have LOTS of money and would not put their additional wives on Welfare/Medicaid/Food stamps etc!!), wouldn't it be better to put their kids in that expensive Islamic school, hire a private Quran tutor for them, perhaps take the family to a Muslim country for intensive study of Islam/Quran/ Arabic?
Or how about using all that extra money to help build a Masjid/Islamic Center or even a nice "halal" recreation center to help keep the Muslm youth busy in a halal way?
Anyway, those are just a couple of ideas that come to mind, that IMHO, Imams in the West should be addressing... helping to guide these brothers in doing something POSITIVE that will BENEFIT our Ummah rather than something that (while technically halal if done properly) is likely to cause pain and devastation -- and maybe even lead to the brother having only one wife again (if #1 divorces him... or even ZERO wives if they both end up divorcing him, which I have seen happen).
There is so much trouble facing our Ummah in present times-- from how westerners misunderstand Islam/ Muslims to how our Muslim youth are being raised without much Islami in their lives -- that these Brothers really don't need to add even more HARM to present circumstances.
As salamu alaykum
Just to be clear: the two Anon posts above (11:12 & 11:14) are mine :)
UmmAhmad
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